Talk:Kdenlive/Workgroup/Documentation

Here is the log of the kdenlive-manual channel (available publicly in telegram, but not to matrix users):

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 00:29] Good job @igorcmelo

Igor, [25.11.20 00:45] thanks

Igor, [25.11.20 00:49] So, I added who already showed interest on contributing*

Igor, [25.11.20 00:57] [ Poll : For now, what is priority? ] - Change outdated sections of the Manual - Change the Manual structure

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [25.11.20 03:19] I don't know what's better from the poll, I don't know how out of date the actual manual is since I've only been using Kdenlive since March

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [25.11.20 03:19] I am definitely interested in contributing and this is a good way for me

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [25.11.20 03:20] I'm also self taught in all things video editing so I don't know if I know a good structure, at least intuitively, I tend to look at help manuals like encyclopedias and just go through the list of stuff looking for

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [25.11.20 05:02] I think what might make sense to me as a self taught editor might be different from people who had more formal training, I don't know

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [25.11.20 05:09] I always think it's weird to have a structure to manuals that is just a listing of the tools by menu category or worse, alphabetical, I think it should be task oriented

frdbr, [25.11.20 05:12] Sorry i wont be able to actively participate but i suggest to look at the structure of what we already have as a start. Also checkout krita and blender documentation for inspiration.

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [25.11.20 05:13] Thx, that's a great idea, I'll do that

Vincent Pinon, [25.11.20 16:09] Other examples: https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1666/en_US/final_cut_pro_x-10.1.2-user_guide.pdf https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/user-guide.html

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 16:11] [In reply to Vincent Pinon] +1

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 16:12] Overall the 1st chapter is always the GUI. So we should speak about the widgets system, what each widget does in brief, and the how layouts works.

Igor, [25.11.20 16:15] Vincent suggested it. I think it is to change the way it approach things, the order of the topics, etc

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 16:18] To me, unless this is the approach I use in theaching anx learning software is in progression from undersranding the symbolic language of the gui first.

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 16:18] If you don't know where to touch and what you can do you are stuck.

Igor, [25.11.20 16:19] I think for now we could: - find outdated info - share it here and maybe at the other group - wait for someone with free time and knowledge to update it

Igor, [25.11.20 16:20] [In reply to Massimo Stella] you are right

Igor, [25.11.20 16:20] before thinking of changing the structure itself, we could use what we already have

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 16:23] [In reply to Igor] It makes sense. But I'd rearrange the old documentation this way: 1. We structure the sections and the titles of the main chapters. 2. We collect the old material and we insert it in the proper place following the new architecture. 3. We write what we are missing, we update the old adaptable material and we delete what it's deprecated.

Igor, [25.11.20 16:25] [In reply to Massimo Stella] I like this idea

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 16:27] I'm a little busy now but I have some ideas about how to arrange the main section. Later or tomorrow I'll post a scratch of the idea for discussion.

Igor, [25.11.20 16:29] So, I notice that older software documentations in general are not very beginner friendly. They describe every single thing instead of teaching.

The modern ones usually are a good way to start, because guides you on the basics of how to use the software and goes gradually increasing difficulty.

Igor, [25.11.20 16:30] [In reply to Massimo Stella] Alright 👍

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 16:32] [In reply to Igor] Right. This is the point. You list briefly all the tools by illustrating the general gui, then you analyze each single widget in its workflow. For eg. 'How to ingest and manage assets' is actually the chapter about the 'Project bin'

M E, [25.11.20 17:06] I thought we could do more short video tutorials instead of writing a lot of text.

M E, [25.11.20 17:08] Be aware that updating pictures in the existing manual takes time until it gets updated (hours or a day). Due to server replication.

Igor, [25.11.20 17:10] I would like to make video tutorials, but I think that a good user manual is also important

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 17:11] [In reply to Igor] +1

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 17:12] We'll make videos which follow the manual architecture.

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 17:13] We have to consider that timeline features will be completed in august (nesting, trimming)

M E, [25.11.20 17:13] I thought for a first quick update of new functions which are missing we could use the various news text and videos from the homepage.

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 17:21] You're right. We already have a bunch of text.

M E, [25.11.20 17:24] Start with news 19.04 (https://kdenlive.org/en/2019/04/kdenlive-19-04-released/) and go on we have 80% of the new functions implemented in the manual.

M E, [25.11.20 17:25] We could convert the gif's from @frdbr to mp4 so it's not self running in the manual.

Massimo Stella, [25.11.20 20:23] Hi. This is the note I wrote about before. It's only one example of how I'd arrange the teaching path.

1.The GUI

  - The Widget system and the layouts
  - Where are the widget (menu where to show hide and arrange the space)
  - List of the widgets with a brief summary of the purpose of each tool item by item.

2. The Workflow

  - Ingest and manage assets: description of the Project bin widget features including generators. We can include a note about the Logging layout.
  - Set assets properties: description of the properties widget
  - Monitor and playback: The Clip monitor widget. - The differences between the Clip monitor and the Project monitor could be reported during the exploration of the Timeline as the 2 are connected.
  - The timeline: This is the most complicated part because every tool has a specific purpose during the workflow but I'm sure we'll figure out how to arrnge the tools (drag and drop, keyboard, 3 point editing, trimming, nesting, etc)

And so on. We should work on the list of the widgets from the view menu by following a generic workflow (ingest, trim, assemble, export) to decide which has the priority (which one you use as first during the actual job)

Igor, [26.11.20 19:37] @massimostella I am trying to start off by what you described

Igor, [26.11.20 19:37] but I don't think I can

Igor, [26.11.20 19:37] let me see the current manual

Igor, [26.11.20 19:59] [In reply to M E] I really like the idea of making video tutorials. For me, the only problem is that my english is not great.

Igor, [26.11.20 20:01] I could make short text tutorials about things such as "How to make Matrix effect" or tutorials on my language

M E, [26.11.20 20:04] [In reply to M E] Start here. This animated gif's are self explaining.

M E, [26.11.20 20:06] https://t.me/kdenlive/37567 has a good voice in English and he is making tutorials. Maybe we could ask him for voice over.

Igor, [26.11.20 20:08] [In reply to M E] Good idea

M E, [26.11.20 20:10] [In reply to M E] If you start with these would be great. Afterwards we could move around the content as @massimostella said.

Igor, [26.11.20 20:10] [In reply to M E] That is a great article! I would like to make text tutorials at that level

M E, [26.11.20 20:11] Maybe we could add as title: "works until version 18.12" and let the old part in. "works from 19.04 on" for new stuff.

M E, [26.11.20 20:14] [In reply to Igor] As said, copy just these text into the manual on the correct place and really a lot is done.

Massimo Stella, [26.11.20 22:51] [In reply to Igor] Never mind. As soon as I can I'll check better the old manual and I'll begin to write some complementary documentation.

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [26.11.20 23:02] I am a native speaker of English, I make lots of video tutorials, I live in San Francisco, let me find a few I've made, I don't go heavy into the editing because a teacher and my students mostly need to just know the info, and don't worry much about the extras I could add afterwards

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [26.11.20 23:03] https://youtu###be/183V8-x9bZY

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [26.11.20 23:21] Or another one I did when I was trying to learn titling https://drive.google.com/file/d/10Ht00CUtTT4qd24lL9TtyHmvvArZrRIz/view?usp=drivesdk

Schykle, [01.12.20 02:55] Heyo! 🤗

Schykle, [01.12.20 03:00] I'm case you haven't seen this, this channel makes some awesome Kdenlive tutorials:

https://www.youtube.com/c/Arkengheist20

Schykle, [01.12.20 03:01] Might be good to have as a reference for feature walkthroughs, especially for things that have changed either in position in the editor or fundamentally.

Schykle, [01.12.20 03:04] I'm currently practicing with Kdenlive to learn how to use it to as full an extent as I can. I'm hoping I can also contribute written and recorded content at some point.

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [01.12.20 03:06] We had a little activity last week, hopefully it picks up again, Through Jan 5th -ish I have more time, so I can help with written documentation and recordings as well

sleepyeyesvince 🇦🇺🦘🥃, [01.12.20 08:25] Hello 🙂 I've never contributed a great deal to a project due to time constraints. Thought this might be a good place to start. Thanks for passing along the link @fuzzyp I'm no kdenlive expert but have used it for some time. I'm decent at proofreading and perhaps writing on topics I'm familiar with.

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [01.12.20 15:30] welcome @schykle and @sleepyeyesvince I pinged people in the Kdenlive group, hopefully some folks will come over here and let us know how we can help and where to begin

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [01.12.20 16:05] Didn't @sassycode write the CC stuff this summer for Google Summer if Code?

Igor, [01.12.20 16:24] [In reply to Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈] yes

M E, [01.12.20 20:29] Here a point we could start updating the manual for the master effect: See comment here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=428846#c4

Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈, [11.12.20 23:29] Is there any news in this Manual update group?

Igor, [12.12.20 05:39] [In reply to Fuzzy P 🏳️‍🌈] well

Igor, [12.12.20 05:39] idk what should i do now

Igor, [12.12.20 05:39] but i really want to

Vincent Pinon, [12.12.20 08:57] Go to userbase.KDE.org/kdenlive wiki, update screenshots, delete obsolete parts, rewrite up to date. Introduce new topics starting with copying kdenlive blog posts, then rearranging to extract a meaningful structure (maybe Massimo's general editing documentation could be a base). Add links to tutorial videos.

That's a big task, to organize maybe in a cardwall or so, but starting scratching here and there will help to better understand what's needed. Reading others docs too.

Igor, [14.12.20 18:43] [In reply to Vincent Pinon] Working on that

Igor, [14.12.20 18:43] "Supports a wide range of old as well as modern webcams, cameras and camcorders"

Igor, [14.12.20 18:44] what does that mean?

Igor, [14.12.20 18:46] [ Photo ]

Vincent Pinon, [14.12.20 18:52] Back to old times, it allowed to grap data from DV tapes over firewire or usb, or use SD cards in MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 etc. Not relevant these days => delete!

Igor, [14.12.20 19:18] I am accepting screenshots to update http://userbase.KDE.org/kdenlive

Igor, [14.12.20 19:20] I think it would be cool to have one for Editing layout and one for the Audio layout

Igor, [14.12.20 19:20] I already added one for the Color layout

M E, [14.12.20 19:25] Be aware that it can take hours or a day until the new uploaded pictures show up. This is a known server "alignment" issue.

M E, [21.12.20 21:43] I added same-track-transition and subtitle to the edit part of the manual: https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual/Timeline/Editing. It's a first shot to have some minimal info.

Igor, [23.12.20 01:37] [In reply to M E] great!

M E, [23.12.20 15:51] I added: - Split Audio/Video - Resizing tracks - Configurable thumbnails for each track - Disabling individual clips

to the timeline part of the manual: https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual/Timeline It's a first shot to have some minimal info.

Vincent Pinon, [23.12.20 17:33] Thanks a lot. With steps like this, the manual can rapidly reach a decent quality level...

Igor, [23.12.20 17:35] [In reply to M E] I am going to learn using that

Igor, [23.12.20 17:44] [In reply to M E] that is also pretty good!

M E, [23.12.20 18:07] [In reply to Vincent Pinon] Lets see how far I come during Christmas break. I made a list of all news since 19.04 and I now try to implement the most important things.

M E, [23.12.20 18:09] All are welcome to check and update and correct as needed.

M E, [24.12.20 15:22] I added: - Monitor toolbar - multiple guide overlays - drag audio or video only

to the monitor part of the manual: https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual/Monitors It's a first shot to have some minimal info.

Vincent Pinon, [24.12.20 15:32] [ 🥰 Sticker ]

M E, [25.12.20 13:38] I added: - 3 point editing

to the editing part of the manual: https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual/Timeline/Editing#3_point_editing It's a first shot to have some minimal info.

frdbr, [25.12.20 13:44] Thanks!

frdbr, [25.12.20 13:44] I am going to open a request for sphinx to sysadmins, lets see how it goes

M E, [25.12.20 13:48] I'll try to implement all important changes into the manual. I hope we can transfer the whole manual content afterwards.

frdbr, [25.12.20 13:49] Yes!

M E, [25.12.20 13:50] including the functionality of the links?

Vincent Pinon, [25.12.20 17:42] [In reply to frdbr] What's the purpose: easier contributions (?) or nicer look ? There is a process to convert wiki data to docbook, this is how we ship our quick start manual with the app. We should continue such shipment.

frdbr, [25.12.20 17:44] I don't know If it is easier tô contribute but it is definitely nicer to look at and easier tô use. Check out Krita or Godot.

frdbr, [25.12.20 17:45] Analogy: phpbb works but discourse is another level.

Vincent Pinon, [25.12.20 17:47] Or see with carlschwan if there is a CSS upgrade planned?

Vincent Pinon, [25.12.20 17:48] I believe sphinx contrib come through git (dev account), while wiki are open to anyone...

M E, [28.12.20 11:17] I added: - Preview resolution - Multicam Editing

to the monitor part of the manual: https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual/Monitors It's a first shot to have some minimal info.

M E, [28.12.20 12:18] I added: - Interface and Layouts

to the Projects and Files part of the manual: https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual/Projects_and_FilesIt's a first shot to have some minimal info.

Kevin Urtz, [12.01.21 13:54] This is a little bit hidden on the website but overall very intresting. May some of pages can be ported to the manual: https://kdenlive.org/en/project/

jk, [22.03.21 22:02] [In reply to Kevin Urtz] The idea of removing these from the website and add them to the manual is not bad

Vincent Pinon, [22.03.21 22:11] +1

frdbr, [22.03.21 22:13] +1 as well

jk, [22.03.21 23:13] Created https://community.kde.org/Kdenlive/Workgroup/Documentation (based on a already existing redlink)

Gerardo, [23.03.21 00:36] Hi. For changes or doubts on my journey updating the manual screenshots. I will do my questions here? Or in the main group?

Vincent Pinon, [23.03.21 00:40] I would say here, it is the purpose of that group However, promoting that work on main group and maybe getting help would be good too ;)

Gerardo, [23.03.21 00:54] [In reply to Vincent Pinon] Yes. I was thinking on the main group for feedback about usage or opinions on certain subjects. The idea of getting help is also a good one

jk, [23.03.21 16:48] https://kdenlive.org/en/project/working-with-extracted-frames-in-higher-resolution-than-project-profile/ I made some test and I think this is not valid anymore. In my experience kdenlive extracts frames based on the source resoulution for the clip monitor and based on the project settings for the project monitor. @frdbr @Merlimau99 If you can confirm I think we should remove it from the website

jk, [23.03.21 17:01] This can be removed as well in my opinion: https://kdenlive.org/en/project/cure-projects-with-odd-audio-mixing-behavior/

jk, [23.03.21 17:03] And this https://kdenlive.org/en/project/cure-projects-with-oddly-behaving-transparent-tracks/

jk, [23.03.21 17:08] What do you think where we should move https://kdenlive.org/en/inside-kdenlive/ to?

• to https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual as part of the manual
• to https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive into a new "inside kdenlive" section
• to https://community.kde.org/Kdenlive

Vincent Pinon, [23.03.21 18:13] Inside kdenlive on community I think

Gerardo, [23.03.21 22:25] [In reply to jk] The Inside-Kdenlive topic is outdated. I would suggest

Gerardo, [23.03.21 22:26] If there's plans to update, put it inside an appendix on the manual

Gerardo, [23.03.21 22:29] If not. Maybe create a new section called Historical or something like that where you can archive this info

jk, [23.03.21 22:40] [In reply to Vincent Pinon] Agree, but I wonder if community.kde.org is maybe the better place like Vincent said, because the inside stuff is more relevant for devs etc. than for normal users.

Michael | DLN, [04.05.21 23:42] I would like to help with documentation for Kdenlive. Are there any pain points currently that would the project would prefer be addressed first?

frdbr, [04.05.21 23:45] [In reply to Michael | DLN] https://t.me/kdenlivemanual

jk, [04.05.21 23:47] https://community.kde.org/Kdenlive/Workgroup/Documentation

jk, [04.05.21 23:49] I also started to make a list of all features. We have to check if they are in the documentation. If yes we have to check if they are up to date (likely not…) If no we have to add them. Maybe the list helps as well to structure everything better. I am going to "publish" the list tomorrow.

frdbr, [04.05.21 23:50] [In reply to frdbr] lol, i thought this was the main group :P

Michael | DLN, [04.05.21 23:51]

D

jk, [05.05.21 15:24] I added the feature list here https://community.kde.org/Kdenlive/Workgroup/Documentation#List_of_Features

jk, [05.05.21 15:28] I can not guarantee that it is 100% complete, please complete it if something is missing. Next step would be to check for each feature what the state in the manual is (maybe add a link if it exist already) and update the status column. Then we can go throug the list to complete the manual step by step.

jk, [05.05.21 15:29] Help is realy appreciated!

M E, [05.05.21 18:04] [In reply to jk] Excellent -> I start filling.

alex 🇦🇺, [08.05.21 12:56] https://community.kde.org/Kdenlive/Workgroup/Triaging I have just made a whole bunch of changes to this page, mostly punctuation/spelling/grammar. Although I did tweak the procedures in some parts a bit. Please check and make sure I haven't made any mistakes

jk, [08.05.21 13:42] I update this page a few days ago to merge the instructions from the homepage and have everything in a single place so you corrected all my mistakes 😊 The changes look good, thanks!!!

M E, [08.05.21 14:19] [In reply to alex 🇦🇺] As you are a nativ English speaker maybe you can check the manual text as well if you have time. Check here https://community.kde.org/Kdenlive/Workgroup/Documentation -> all text in the manual with status "actual version" are from me (with my Swiss English).

alex 🇦🇺, [08.05.21 14:25] Alright, I'll check over that when I can

jk, [10.05.21 00:03] I added a section for the pages that we want to move from the website to the wiki: https://community.kde.org/Kdenlive/Workgroup/Documentation#Texts_we_want_to_move_from_the_website

KDE Telegram Admin, [14.05.21 11:14] please could I get admin with power to add admins please to setup the matrix bridge

jk, [14.05.21 11:15] @frdbr ☝️

frdbr, [14.05.21 12:17] [In reply to KDE Telegram Admin] 👍👍

KDE Telegram Admin, [14.05.21 12:20] @kdemtgbot poke

jk, [14.05.21 17:47] Test?

Michael | DLN, [14.05.21 18:18] NICE! I can use Matrix now. I like that

frdbr, [14.05.21 18:40] [In reply to jk] is it working?

jk, [14.05.21 19:56] Not yet. The bot needs some time…

sleepyeyesvince 🇦🇺🦘🥃, [15.05.21 02:19] Hi everyone. Been lurking for a bit here. I've identified some edits/updates I could make to the wiki, but as I'm new to this whole contributing thing, I was wondering if there was some sort of review process before edits go live? Else I'll post what edits I make here for review.

Vincent Pinon, [15.05.21 08:41] Wiki is moderated "a posteriori": do your changes, we will revert if we don't like...

KDE Telegram Admin, [18.05.21 08:00] test

RawDataBot, [20.05.21 12:29] Your chat id is -1001192038342, your id is 1764708014

Also you can send me username or joinchat link in a private message

Kisses, your bot

KDE Telegram Admin, [20.05.21 12:34] test

KDE Matrix Bridge, [20.05.21 12:36] seaLne: ping

KDE Telegram Admin, [20.05.21 12:36] pong

KDE Matrix Bridge, [20.05.21 15:39] jlskuz: Thanks seaLne (@kenny:kde.org)!

KDE Matrix Bridge, [20.05.21 15:48] seaLne: sorry it took a bit longer than expected

KDE Matrix Bridge, [20.05.21 15:54] tenzen: Thank you.

KDE Matrix Bridge, [21.05.21 20:28] Carl Schwan joined the room.

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:06] [ Photo ] tenzen sent an image: image.png

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:06] tenzen: https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual/Effects_And_Transitions

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:07] tenzen: I made it to the end of the list

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:07] tenzen: Need a bit of a hand though.. The biggest challenge is the inconsistency of which effects are available in each version of Kdenlive. For example, Windows, vs Manjaro Repos, vs Flatpak, vs Appimage..

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:08] tenzen: so.. I'm looking for folks to take a look at their version and pull the category and the description for the following effects:

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:08] tenzen: Edge Crop

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:08] tenzen: Fast overdrive

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:08] tenzen: Mute NDVI filter

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:08] tenzen: Pad Pan

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:09] tenzen: Pp

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:09] tenzen: Primaries

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:09] tenzen: Scale_cuda

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:09] tenzen: screen

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:09] tenzen: Shuffleplanes

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:09] tenzen: Signalstats

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:10] tenzen: Simple amplifier

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:10] tenzen: Simple Delay Line, noninterpolating

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:10] tenzen: TAP Equalizer

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:10] tenzen: TAP Pitch Shifter

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:10] tenzen: TAP Rotary Speaker TAP Scaling Limiter

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:10] tenzen: TAP Stereo Echo

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:11] tenzen: TAP TubeWarmth

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:11] tenzen: Technicolor

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:11] tenzen: Threshold

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:11] tenzen: Zmq

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 04:11] tenzen: with the info from those effects, the page should be current to 21.04

Vincent Pinon, [23.05.21 08:16] [ 👏 Sticker ]

Vincent Pinon, [23.05.21 08:16] Many thanks tenzen!

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 08:18] tenzen: Nowhere near done, but that was a big milesone..  :)

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 08:18] tenzen: happy to be able to contribute. You folks do the heavy lifting on creating the software -- im no programmer, but documentation i can do.. :D

M E, [23.05.21 10:57] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] @tenzen: On Windows 21.04.1: from above list only following effects are available: Edge Crop NDVI filter Pan Primaries screen Technicolor Threshold

The info text should be consistent as it pulls it from the same source file.

M E, [23.05.21 11:21] @tenzen: On AppImage 21.04.1: form above list only following effects are available: Edge Crop Fast overdrive Mute NDVI filter Pan Primaries screen Simple amplifier Simple Delay Line, noninterpolating Technicolor Threshold

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 17:11] [In reply to M E] tenzen: Thanks. I have found significant variation on which effects are available depending on the package/installation. For example, running the flatpak under manjaro under virtualbox under Windows has a whole category called “TAP” in audio effects that are not in any other install I have done. That Windows machine died a few days ago so I no longer have access to that image and my Linux machine does not have that category of effects. In any case if you have those effects in your install if you could shoot me the category (eg Audio effects/audio) and the description I can update the page as those are not in my manjaro repo install, nor the the appimage on my machine.

M E, [23.05.21 17:51] Here we go: Dyson compressor LADSPA plugin (ladspa.1403) Fast overdrive LADSPA plugin (ladspa.1196) Lift/Gamma/Gain A simple lift/gamma/gain effect, used for color grading. (lift_gamma_gain) Mono Amplifier not in AppImage nor on Windows Mute Mute clip (volume) Obscure Hide a region of the clip (obscure) Shuffleplanes not in AppImage nor on Windows Signalstats not in AppImage nor on Windows Spill Suppress Remove green or blue spill light from subjects shot in front of green or blue screen (frei0r.spillsupress) White Balance Adjust the white balance / color temperature (frei0r.balanc0r)

frdbr, [23.05.21 18:10] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] TAP is a LADSPA plugin collection that was added recently to the flatpak version. It is being added to the AppImage but no success yet in building it. As for distro packages or PPA, if TAP is installed in system then Kdenlive will detect it.

frdbr, [23.05.21 18:10] Ideally we should ship with TAP and SWH ladspa plugins.

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 18:27] [In reply to frdbr] tenzen: Is there a cheat sheet on which plug-in packs are used?

It probably wouldn’t take too much to put a page in the manual with some hints to allow folks to install for their distro.

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 21:58] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] tenzen: I get it, Kdenlive is simply using any LADSPA plugins that are installed...

KDE Matrix Bridge, [23.05.21 21:58] [ Photo ] tenzen sent an image: image.png

frdbr, [23.05.21 22:04] Yes!

frdbr, [23.05.21 22:04] I have used some of those and they are crashy

frdbr, [23.05.21 22:05] Others don't work

KDE Matrix Bridge, [24.05.21 02:21] ojeopereira joined the room.

KDE Matrix Bridge, [25.05.21 16:37] seaLne left the room.

Vincent Pinon, [25.05.21 17:06] Hello, Regarding the manual structure, would it make sense reorganize with one section per layouts (as in the default layout list)? It also teaches the editing process steps...

M E, [25.05.21 17:26] [ Photo ] I thought something similar which is roughly the Premiere manual structure:

KDE Matrix Bridge, [26.05.21 12:06] tenzen: For me, when I come to a product and am looking for information, it falls into one of two categories: 1) Descriptive where I'm looking to understand the function of an option, button or the usage of a function -- but disassociated from a project and 2) How-to, where I'm looking to learn how to complete a task and am not concerned with learning every potential function -- but rather how I get to the goal simply and effectively..

KDE Matrix Bridge, [26.05.21 12:06] tenzen: I find that the kdenlive manual today is somewhere between the two...

KDE Matrix Bridge, [26.05.21 12:06] tenzen: That’s a good idea. Some of the commercial products must have done some end user modeling for the manual

KDE Matrix Bridge, [26.05.21 12:06] tenzen: Is there any way we can see what pages are most used in the existing manual, what search terms are used on the site and on search engines that led users to the manual?

KDE Matrix Bridge, [26.05.21 12:06] tenzen: I was thinking some more. I really like the idea of modelling after something like premier. Is there a place we can draft other than the live manual and then simply “move to production” when it’s ready? I’d be happy to start building that out.

M E, [26.05.21 19:57] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] I'm not aware of such search analyzer.

M E, [26.05.21 20:02] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] As far as I know this is only possible if we switch to Sphinx Documentation. This is like a code repository where you can have several branches. Blender works with sphinx https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/2.92/. @frdbr correct me if I'm wrong.

frdbr, [26.05.21 20:02] [In reply to M E] neither am i

frdbr, [26.05.21 20:03] [In reply to M E] yeah, Blender, Godot and Krita use Sphinx

frdbr, [26.05.21 20:03] To set it up we need to use gitlab if i'm not mistaken

M E, [26.05.21 20:06] [In reply to frdbr] yes: https://invent.kde.org/documentation and a web page like https://docs.kdenlive.org and make the connection for automatic updating.

Gerardo, [26.05.21 23:07] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] To see which pages are more visited can be done using https://analytics.google.com/ but you need to add a code on the website and then start the monitoring

frdbr, [26.05.21 23:39] [In reply to Gerardo] We can't do that, against KDE policy if im not mistaken

Vincent Pinon, [26.05.21 23:46] KDE has some stats modules, but not google's, FLOSS one(s). But I don't think they are tracking wiki

frdbr, [28.05.21 15:52] hi all

frdbr, [28.05.21 15:53] i am thinking of removing the toolbox section in the website

frdbr, [28.05.21 15:53] would be nice to add it to the manual though

frdbr, [28.05.21 15:53] what do you think?

frdbr, [28.05.21 15:53] https://kdenlive.org/en/toolbox/

M E, [28.05.21 16:02] We could make a (temporary) link in the manual to the toolbox (until it's complete implemented). I would rename toolbox to "behind the scenes" or similar because there are not additional tools but very useful background information.

M E, [28.05.21 16:05] @tenzen we have a statistics about Kdenlive Wiki https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual. We should get the details next days. First figures: We have 500 unique page views per day! 14'000 unique page views in May!

KDE Matrix Bridge, [28.05.21 16:11] [ File : stats.xml ] Carl Schwan sent a file: stats.xml

KDE Matrix Bridge, [28.05.21 16:11] Carl Schwan: @Merlimau99: ^

Gerardo, [28.05.21 16:41] [In reply to M E] Those are really good stats! There is a lot of people reading the manual, so the efforts to update it are really relevant

M E, [28.05.21 16:42] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] @Carl Schwan Thank you very much.

Gerardo, [28.05.21 16:42] I wonder if half of those visits was Tenzen reviewing the manual 😁

M E, [28.05.21 16:44] [In reply to Gerardo] Thought the same....

M E, [28.05.21 16:45] [In reply to Gerardo] As I see about 100'000 downloads (50/50 Linux/Windows) that means 14% of the users check the manual.

M E, [28.05.21 17:02] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] @Carl Schwan I guess this is the May 2021 stats. How do you get the nice view as you have shown on the screenshot?

KDE Matrix Bridge, [28.05.21 18:00] [In reply to M E] Carl Schwan: it's a screenshot of the web interface

KDE Matrix Bridge, [28.05.21 18:00] Carl Schwan: maybe you can ask for access to the "userbase" website on stats.kde.org with a sysadmin ticket

frdbr, [28.05.21 18:29] How about this: https://kdenlive.org/en/developers-welcome/

frdbr, [28.05.21 18:29] Should we link to the wiki?

frdbr, [28.05.21 18:39] [In reply to M E] maybe have a section called "quick tips", "handy hints" or something like that in the manual.

jk, [29.05.21 10:24] [In reply to frdbr] I already added a list for things that should be moved from the website to the manual some weeks ago: https://community.kde.org/Kdenlive/Workgroup/Documentation#Texts_we_want_to_move_from_the_website

M E, [29.05.21 16:00] [In reply to KDE Matrix Bridge] [ Photo ] @tenzen Here the analysis what users click/search most in the manual. I summarized the most 80%.

Since begin of this year we have almost 90'000 users checking the manual!

KDE Matrix Bridge, [29.05.21 16:01] tenzen: Thanks so much, i see the messages everybody, I've been pulled away for a few days by work, but I'll catch up here probably tomorrow (if I get the work done today as expected) and see everything. Thank you for digging it up. The analytics are great for seeing which sections should come first and what kinds of info folks are looking for.

M E, [29.05.21 16:04] No hurry, take your time.