KDE Games/IRC Meetings/2008-03-16-log

You changed the topic to "KDE Games meeting: agenda at http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting".
[5:00pm] josef|samba: meeting starting now!
[5:00pm] mikelima: all right.
[5:01pm] tsdgeos: wooo
[5:01pm] tsdgeos: and i'm here
[5:01pm] DrIDK-ready: da
[5:01pm] piacentini: hi people
[5:01pm] majewsky: me too
[5:01pm] piacentini: so, agenda is at the topic
[5:01pm] piacentini: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting
[5:01pm] piacentini: anyone new here that wants to introduce hiself or herself? Please do
[5:02pm] annma joined the chat room.
[5:02pm] piacentini: Feature plan link is at http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Schedules/KDE4/4.1_Feature_Plan
[5:02pm] majewsky: If you mean "new" in the sense of "did not participate in any meetings up to now": I'm Stefan Majewsky, and I've developed KDiamond.
[5:03pm] piacentini: Glad to meet you again online, Stefan
[5:03pm] milliams: Welcome majewsky
[5:03pm] piacentini: A couple of reminders:
[5:03pm] majewsky: piacentini: Have been busy preparing my exams in April.
[5:03pm] piacentini: The feature plan link above needs to be completed before Aprl 7
[5:04pm] piacentini: april 7th, for the KDE 4.1 soft feature freeze
[5:04pm] piacentini: anything not on the table does not go in for 4.1
[5:04pm] tsdgeos: the table, not the feature itself
[5:04pm] mikelima: ...and if a feature can't be completed it's not a problem.
[5:04pm] mikelima: So better adding something more than leaving out something.
[5:04pm] piacentini: yes, thanks for the clarifications 
[5:05pm] piacentini: The full release schedule link is at http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Schedules/KDE4/4.1_Release_Schedule#April_7th.2C_2008:_Soft_Feature_Freeze
[5:05pm] annma left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[5:05pm] josef|samba: compared to some other modules, there's really some drive behind the kdegames changes
[5:05pm] ianw: Hello ... ?
[5:05pm] piacentini: Hi, josef, Ian
[5:06pm] piacentini: So, I propose we start the meeting by following the agenda AND the feature table
[5:06pm] mkbart: Ok, me too.
[5:06pm] DrIDK-ready: piacentini: ok
[5:07pm] mikelima: sure.
[5:07pm] majewsky: ok
[5:07pm] piacentini: So, two topics: GGZ/multiplayer and KNS
[5:07pm] DrIDK-ready: KNS = ?
[5:07pm] majewsky: KNewStuff
[5:07pm] josef|samba: that would be me for a start 
[5:07pm] piacentini: KnewStuff2, also GHNS
[5:07pm] piacentini: sure, josef 
[5:08pm] milliams: (also DXS I believe)
[5:08pm] piacentini: BTW, Josef will be in Brazil for FISL next month
[5:08pm] josef|samba: so basically I'm working on the kggzcore library and some first GUI elements to introduce the successor to the KGGZ core client
[5:08pm] piacentini: So we can maybe meet and even do some code there, something to keep in mind. go on
[5:08pm] josef|samba: here's a nice screenshot of today: http://us.ggzgamingzone.org/~josef/roomslist.png
[5:09pm] josef|samba: the basics are working already, and it will help people like DrIDK-ready who want to launch GGZ from within their games, in addition to launching the games from GGZ
[5:09pm] DrIDK-ready is now known as DrIDK.
[5:10pm] DrIDK:
[5:10pm] piacentini: I am not working on any multiplayer-enabled game at this time. Do you think we will have other games ready to use this in 4.1?
[5:10pm] piacentini: (other than kreversi, kbattleship, ksquares)
[5:10pm] josef|samba: well I want to finish KSquares, and also improve the currently existing ones (kreversi & kbattleship)
[5:11pm] josef|samba: if there's time, I want to look at KFourInLines, as there's already a server for it
[5:11pm] mikelima: josef|samba: good plan 
[5:11pm] piacentini: cool, josef. Maybe if you find it necessary, post to the mailing list requesting help
[5:11pm] piacentini: Not sure if there are people willing to help or learn the basics of GGZ, would not hurt to try
[5:12pm] josef|samba: most of the time I'm working on server-side GGZ, for example you can now create new game configurations on the fly through the web frontend and have such games ranked etc.
[5:12pm] josef|samba: also, interrupted games are restarted automatically, another new feature
[5:13pm] josef|samba: that's it for multiplayer for today 
[5:13pm] DrIDK: About Network Games, what do you think about a server with all hight score ?
[5:13pm] piacentini: Good update. Now to KNS?
[5:13pm] majewsky: Highscores would be interesting for me too.
[5:13pm] ruphy joined the chat room.
[5:13pm] josef|samba: DrIDK: we've proposed that as a GSoC task and will know by tomorrow whether they accept us
[5:14pm] DrIDK: GSoC = ?
[5:14pm] piacentini: Google summer of code
[5:14pm] mkbart: Google summer of Code
[5:14pm] josef|samba: http://code.google.com/soc/2008/
[5:14pm] DrIDK: ok 
[5:14pm] majewsky: Sounds good.
[5:14pm] piacentini: Now to KNS
[5:15pm] ianw: Is there a server for KNS and highscores?
[5:15pm] piacentini: Any new work on this front? I think we should start by providing some downloadable themes on games.kde.org
[5:15pm] mikelima: Yes, are there news on KNS?
[5:15pm] piacentini: ianw: the idea for now (please correct me if I am wrong)
[5:15pm] piacentini: Is to use games.kde.org at least to start (for downloads)
[5:16pm] ianw: OK 
[5:16pm] piacentini: And online highscores would be better integrated via GGZ for now?
[5:16pm] josef|samba: jpwhiting told me today that the cache handling isn't fully working yet, but other than that there's nothing which should hold anyone back with adding KNS to games!
[5:16pm] piacentini: KGoldrunner could be a candidate, perhaps? I see it is listed in the feature plan
[5:17pm] • josef|samba looks to mikelima
[5:17pm] mikelima: Well, yes, I wanted to do that... but I'm not sure I'll have the time.
[5:17pm] piacentini: Best would be to reenable the theme downloading integrations in KGameThemeSelector
[5:17pm] josef|samba: yeah, themes and levels will be the strong use cases
[5:17pm] piacentini: I *could* try to do it for KBlocks, but this last 3 weeks I was unable to work on it other than minor fixes
[5:17pm] mikelima: I'd need to add a theme selector like in kmahjongg...
[5:18pm] ianw: I'm short of time for KGoldrunner too, busy on Kubrick
[5:18pm] piacentini: But my plan is to finish the score/points and move it to kdereview until the end of the week at most
[5:18pm] majewsky: KDiamond already supports themes. How much has to be down to get full KNS support at games.kde.org? There has to be a web interface for uploading themes.
[5:18pm] mikelima: And I'm in the middle of a job/town change, soi it's not the best of time.
[5:18pm] piacentini: majewsky: do you have the GET NEW THEME button in your theme selector? I think it is enabled by a flag
[5:18pm] piacentini: in the KGameThemeSelector constructor
[5:19pm] josef|samba: majewsky: uploading is integrated in KNS, you just have to connect the uploader to your level editor, but there's also a (unmaintained) web interface available in the hotstuff software
[5:19pm] majewsky: I do not have it enabled yet. How does it find out where to get themes?
[5:20pm] josef|samba: you tell it so by installing a *.knsrc file into KDE's config directory
[5:20pm] piacentini: josef can help, but there is a knrs file
[5:20pm] mkbart: And how about KNewWalk being themeable?
[5:20pm] piacentini: So, in theory, it should simply work?
[5:20pm] josef|samba: documentation: trunk/kdelibs/knewstuff/doc/*.txt 
[5:20pm] piacentini: mkbart: also in the feature plan, but we need more themes for it. Are you planning to help with it?
[5:20pm] josef|samba: yes, it works... for a test repository I can always create some at data.kstuff.org which the game maintainer can then control through SVN
[5:21pm] mkbart: piacentini: Yes, i can do the themes
[5:21pm] mkbart: piacentini: I also made one more for KSame
[5:21pm] piacentini: mkbart: so maybe contact Fela via the mailing list, and coordinate this?
[5:22pm] mkbart: piacentini: Is he somethimes here on channel?
[5:22pm] piacentini: sometimes
[5:22pm] mkbart: Ok, I'll contact him
[5:22pm] piacentini: mkbart: btw, for KSame, we need to implement the theme selector as well I think
[5:22pm] mkbart: piacentini: yes
[5:22pm] piacentini: After the meeting, I will post the minutes to the techbase page
[5:23pm] piacentini: And maybe post a todo list to the mailing list with these tasks
[5:23pm] piacentini: So those who want to help can get started
[5:23pm] ianw: Does KSame have selectors for board size and  no. of colors now?
[5:24pm] piacentini: ianw: not yet
[5:24pm] piacentini: mkbart: you simply replaced the default oxygen theme, right?
[5:24pm] piacentini: for KSame, I mean
[5:24pm] mkbart: piacentini: It's told me to do that
[5:24pm] ianw: We were going to make that the replacement for Klickety ... <reminder>
[5:24pm] mkbart: piacentini: The old one is still able
[5:24pm] mkbart: *It-s
[5:25pm] piacentini: OK, I am just thinking that we could keep both, and add the selector
[5:25pm] mkbart: Exactly
[5:25pm] piacentini: and the options as well, as Ian pointed out
[5:25pm] piacentini: But, there has been no activity in KSame code for almost an year I think
[5:25pm] mkbart: Who is the author?
[5:26pm] piacentini: Henrique Pinto did the KDE4 port, but he is probably too busy right now
[5:26pm] mikelima: It should not be hard to add a theme submenu and scan for the available themes...
[5:26pm] piacentini: If someone here wants to volunteer to help, please do. I will add this to our todo list
[5:27pm] piacentini: So, new games, quick update on them?
[5:27pm] piacentini: Kubrick?
[5:27pm] majewsky: I#
[5:27pm] piacentini: and KDiamond?
[5:27pm] ianw: Sent a big email about Kubrick earlier.
[5:27pm] majewsky: I'm ready to move KDiamond to trunk/KDE/kdegames if there are no objections.
[5:27pm] piacentini: ok, first kubrick then
[5:28pm] ianw: Still about a month to go on Kubrick ...
[5:28pm] DrIDK: majewsky: in Kdiamond, they are a lot a unuse space
[5:28pm] piacentini: tsdgeos, pinotree: do we need to be in kdegames before April 7th?
[5:28pm] majewsky: DrlDK: You mean that space at the border?
[5:29pm] piacentini: or can we be in playground/kdereview?
[5:29pm] stephaniewhiting: sorry, I am here
[5:29pm] DrIDK: majewsky: by default the windows is too big
[5:29pm] stephaniewhiting is now known as jpwhiting.
[5:29pm] majewsky: DrlDK: In which sense?
[5:29pm] jpwhiting: piacentini: yes, kns is fine for downloads as is
[5:29pm] piacentini: cool jeremy. Have a quick glance at the history, and please let us know if there is anything related to KNS
[5:29pm] piacentini: cool, that is good for now
[5:30pm] piacentini: We need to start using it. Downloading in 4.1 at least
[5:30pm] DrIDK: majewsky: When I start the game , I have a lot of space in left/right border
[5:30pm] mkbart: majewski: http://www.commit-digest.org/issues/2008-02-10/files/kdiamond.png
[5:30pm] DrIDK: majewsky: then I always have to resize the windows
[5:30pm] piacentini: Let us keep the discussion on topic for now, please?
[5:31pm] jpwhiting: piacentini: yes
[5:31pm] piacentini: Following the agenda at first
[5:31pm] jpwhiting: piacentini: looks fine to me
[5:31pm] emilsedgh joined the chat room.
[5:31pm] • majewsky deletes my kdiamondrc to have a look at the default sizes
[5:31pm] majewsky: I see. That goes to my todo list.
[5:31pm] piacentini: K, so about kubrick. Ian, your email is pretty complete
[5:31pm] piacentini: anything else you want to add?
[5:32pm] ianw: Mainly a Singmaster move textbox ... will be tricky though.
[5:32pm] piacentini: Well, I think we should start planning the moves to kdereview and kdegames
[5:32pm] piacentini: So, for KDiamond
[5:33pm] ianw: Otherwise cosmetics including anti-aliasing 
[5:33pm] piacentini: Anyone against moving it to kdegames now? I think it should go in, already passed the kdereview stage, could continue to mature in trunk
[5:33pm] ianw: Which game is "it"?
[5:34pm] piacentini: Sorry, Ian. For Kubrick, I think you should move it to kdereview if there are no objections 
[5:34pm] CIA-26: ilic * r786349 internal/trunk/l10n-kde4/templates/internal/docmessages/ (18 files in 6 dirs): SVN_SILENT: Doc summit reorder.
[5:34pm] piacentini: For KDiamond, I think it could move to kdegames
[5:34pm] piacentini: (as it has spent some time in review already)
[5:34pm] milliams: No objection from me
[5:34pm] majewsky: Do I have to move all translations manually or can Scripty take care of that somehow?
[5:35pm] ianw: OK to both Mauricio's suggestions.
[5:35pm] mikelima: piacentini: sure it's nice.
[5:35pm] piacentini: majewsky: I do not know, could you maybe contact Albert (tsdgeos) about it?
[5:35pm] majewsky: piacentini: Okay, he'll know best.
[5:36pm] piacentini: Other games in queue:
[5:36pm] piacentini: KBreakout is also from Fela.
[5:36pm] piacentini: KBlocks I am planning to move to kdereview until the next weekend
[5:36pm] emilsedgh: which game wants get in the module? kdiamond? i have to add it to website
[5:36pm] piacentini: (so we have 2 weeks in review before April 7th)
[5:36pm] majewsky: emilsedgh: Right, it's KDiamond.
[5:36pm] majewsky: I'm moving it at the moment.
[5:37pm] emilsedgh: majewsky: congrats 
[5:37pm] piacentini: Ian: are you ok with going to kdereview before the next weekend?
[5:37pm] emilsedgh: any other game has being entered since 4.0? kollision?
[5:37pm] piacentini: for kubrick?
[5:37pm] ianw: I think Apr 7 is just a *soft* freeze, for stuff not previously announced in the feature list ... ?
[5:38pm] DrIDK:  kollision.... my favorite games!
[5:38pm] piacentini: ianw: I do not want to take risks this time. We missed a lot of games in 4.0 due to following the rules strictly
[5:38pm] ianw: Yeah, I think I could get to kedreview then, but would rather shoot for the May hard-freeze.
[5:38pm] piacentini: To me, soft freeze means that apps need to be in place and feature set needs to be committed
[5:39pm] piacentini: ianw: so, let us do it this way:
[5:39pm] CIA-26: majewsky * r786350 /trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Move KDiamond from kdereview to kdegames module. (Messages missing.)
[5:39pm] piacentini: I will consult the release team list about this specifically (whether we need to be in kdereview or kdegames)
[5:39pm] piacentini: And will post until Wednesday to the mailing list
[5:40pm] ianw: Thanks, Mauricio 
[5:40pm] piacentini: I think KBlocks, Kubrick, Kollision and KBreakOut at least need to be in 4.1
[5:40pm] piacentini: And probably also Ksirk and pakman if possible
[5:41pm] piacentini: OK, so I think I need to have a look at this before we continue to discuss the moves. Let us postpone the decision to the middle of the week.
[5:41pm] mikelima: uhm... pakman does not look finished...
[5:41pm] emilsedgh: (last time i played kbreakout, levels were not enough)
[5:42pm] piacentini: emilsedgh, mikelima: I know. But I would prefer to cut things one week before release if they are not finished
[5:42pm] emilsedgh: ok, nice
[5:42pm] piacentini: And not cut things right now just because we are one of the two only modules that follow the schedules
[5:42pm] majewsky: piacentini: What module is the other one? (Just for interest.)
[5:43pm] mikelima: uhm, ok, if you prefer so...
[5:43pm] piacentini: kdeedu imo
[5:43pm] emilsedgh: so, im not going to add game packages to site for now, because things might change until release time
[5:43pm] piacentini: mikelima: Because if people KNOW that their game (pakman for example) will only have a chance of going in in 4.2, they loose interest in completing it
[5:43pm] Porkotron is now known as Parkotron.
[5:43pm] piacentini: emilsedgh: yes, sure. Wait and keep the surprises for 4.1
[5:44pm] gurumeditationer joined the chat room.
[5:44pm] mikelima: well, I can understand that... but once the game is in, it can be a burden for all kdegames developers...
[5:44pm] piacentini: mikelima: agreed. How can we handle this?
[5:44pm] piacentini: My proposal is that they are not really *in* until we release 4.1
[5:44pm] mikelima: And it's harder to take it out. People would complain.
[5:45pm] piacentini: So we can remove them one month before the release back to playground for example, like we did with kbackgammon
[5:45pm] mikelima: Yes, that could work.
[5:46pm] piacentini: So, two other topics in the agenda: sound and themes, and setup keys/joypad/mouse
[5:46pm] piacentini: About the setup first
[5:46pm] DrIDK: ok, this is my idea
[5:46pm] piacentini: Who proposed it? Anyone willing to work on it?
[5:46pm] DrIDK: Me
[5:46pm] piacentini: OK, explain it to us!
[5:47pm] mikelima: How would that work? Joysticks events are not part of Qt event system.
[5:47pm] DrIDK: I think Kshortcut Way for config hight control game is not easy
[5:47pm] DrIDK: I want to create hight level of  Control game config
[5:47pm] mikelima: I'd love to have joystick working in kgoldrunner... Great for "historical" gaming 
[5:48pm] DrIDK: Exemple : if you I want move my mario with joystick, and shoot with mouse click
[5:48pm] DrIDK: So, I want to create a same Control config like all of "big game"
[5:49pm] DrIDK: If I press a KEY / JOYPAD / Mouse , the widget Get the control
[5:49pm] piacentini: One suggestion: maybe you can implement this as a set of classes/widgets on ONE game (maybe KTanks?) and then if it works we can review/abstract it to libkdegames classes, and other games can pick it up
[5:49pm] piacentini: Sort of like we did with KGameTheme and others
[5:49pm] mikelima: DrIDK: but how would input handling work?
[5:49pm] ianw: How about multiple inputs,DrIDK?  Someone proposed catch-as-catch-can KGoldrunner ...
[5:50pm] DrIDK: piacentini: Yes it was my idea.  First I will create it for ktank.
[5:50pm] piacentini: this is a good way to test these concepts and know if/how they work, and then game authors can implement them later (think KGamePopupItem, KScoreDialog, etc)
[5:50pm] piacentini: Cool. I see others have suggestions for it, could be a nice project
[5:51pm] DrIDK: so, Otherwise,  I propose my KGLKeyControl for have direct input without the "delay key"
[5:52pm] DrIDK: ianw: what do you mean by catch as catche ?
[5:52pm] milliams: (majewsky: compile error in kdegames at http://developer.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard/)
[5:52pm] DrIDK: ianw: I am french..
[5:52pm] ianw: One human player is the hero another is the enemy ...
[5:52pm] mikelima: DrIDK: can you write up an article on joypad support for techbase/the list?
[5:53pm] DrIDK: mikelima: eh... I never try to control Joypad with kde4 exept with SDL
[5:53pm] josef|samba: my kdiamond also didn't compile
[5:53pm] ianw: L'un est l'hero, l'autre est l'ennemi ... 
[5:53pm] DrIDK: mikelima: but, I can write all you want
[5:54pm] majewsky: milliams: Working on it.
[5:54pm] DrIDK: ianw: oh! so It will possible with multiple control and with my key class
[5:54pm] milliams: (majewsky: cool. You just need to link against libkdegames)
[5:54pm] ianw: Yay .... but hard to program in the game logic maybe ...
[5:55pm] DrIDK: ianw: wait I show you a part of my code
[5:56pm] piacentini: Guys, there is just one other item on the agenda, sounds and themes discussion. I propose we engage now in this free-form discussion for these two themes (with joystick support), as the rest is covered
[5:56pm] DrIDK: http://rafb.net/p/4JoiL044.html
[5:56pm] mikelima: piacentini: I agree.
[5:56pm] piacentini: And the more "formal" part of the meeting is over now, I will post a summary to the ml during the next few days