KDE Games/IRC Meetings/2007-12-13-log

[6:00pm] piacentini: Hey people, let us start the meeting? And keep it short?
[6:01pm] piacentini: Lots of new people today
[6:01pm] piacentini: If someone wants to introduce him or herself, please do (1 minute!)
[6:01pm] piacentini: And then we can jump to the agenda
[6:01pm] piacentini: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting
[6:02pm] tsdgeos: Albert Astals Cid, ktuberling, kiriki, lots of nagging, KDE all around dude
[6:02pm] piacentini: Mauricio Piacentini, working on Kmahjongg, Kmines and KTurtle. And in the middle of an email-frenzy today
[6:03pm] emilsedgh: Emil Sedgh, website, nah nothing more 
[6:03pm] piacentini: OK, let us start with the agenda then.... Last minute release duties
[6:03pm] it-s: oh, before we get too far
[6:04pm] Mkbart: Mkbart, new guy, nothing important yet 
[6:04pm] mikelima: Luciano Montanaro, kgoldrunner, a bit of artwork
[6:04pm] piacentini: go it-s
[6:04pm] it-s: Please let me introduce to the all of you
[6:04pm] it-s: DrIDK
[6:04pm] it-s: and ikit
[6:04pm] Mkbart: Or if you want, Michał Bartecki 
[6:04pm] it-s: they are the 2 new devs
[6:04pm] it-s: who are working on a new and exciting game for KDEGames
[6:04pm] it-s: KTanks
[6:05pm] piacentini: cool, welcome!
[6:05pm] piacentini: it should be great as we plan to cover 4.1 plans as well
[6:05pm] it-s: I'm not sure if they're here to speak for themselves, but I just wanted everybody to know them and support the development
[6:05pm] mikelima: welcome, DrIDK, ikit
[6:05pm] tsdgeos: yeah, welcome 
[6:05pm] emilsedgh: thirded, welcome
[6:06pm] piacentini: I got emails from Martin Heni and kleag as well
[6:06pm] it-s: there is another peson whom I wanted to introduce, but that person isn't here unfortunatly, so we will leave it for the next meeting
[6:06pm] piacentini: they will not be able to attend, but had some info to share
[6:06pm] tsdgeos: ok, share 
[6:06pm] piacentini: it-s: did you manage to contact Johann in the last few days
[6:06pm] piacentini: ?
[6:06pm] it-s: oh right!
[6:07pm] it-s: sorry
[6:07pm] piacentini: Martin Heni wrote about the KWin4 rename proposal, listed in the agenda
[6:07pm] piacentini: To refresh
[6:07pm] it-s: Johann apologises heartly, but he's got 2 jobs and is doing stuff for Kopete as well
[6:07pm] piacentini: Dirk and others from the release team expressed the idea to rename kwin4 in order to avoid confusion with kwin, the window manager
[6:07pm] piacentini: There was some discussion about it
[6:08pm] tsdgeos: yeah, more now that we are in KDE4
[6:08pm] tsdgeos: we have two kwin4 
[6:08pm] piacentini: But I spoke today with winterz (release coordinator)
[6:08pm] mikelima: piacentini: that makes sense.
[6:08pm] piacentini: And he felt it might not be the best time for this change, if it is too cumbersome
[6:08pm] ikit: mikelima: hi
[6:08pm] piacentini: However, if we decide to do it, we need to pick a name today, and do it
[6:08pm] it-s: ikit: oh you're right in time
[6:08pm] tsdgeos: do we know exactly what it involves?
[6:09pm] annma_ joined the chat room.
[6:09pm] piacentini: tsdgeos: I imagine changing the .desktop file and executable name, and renaming the dir?
[6:09pm] mikelima: piacentini: is four-wins or something similar already taken?
[6:09pm] ikit: it-s: I don't understand... :s
[6:09pm] tsdgeos: piacentini: bugzilla too
[6:09pm] piacentini: tsdgeos: yes, I am completely lost regarding bugzilla
[6:10pm] piacentini: need to learn it
[6:10pm] it-s: ikit: we have our monthly meeting today
[6:10pm] tsdgeos: well, in bugzilla rather create a new name
[6:10pm] tsdgeos: because kwin4 will still exist in kde3
[6:10pm] it-s: ikit: I just introduced you and DrIDK as Ktank developers, so everyone know who you are
[6:10pm] piacentini: let me paste Martin's email to the paste bin
[6:10pm] piacentini: http://rafb.net/p/7J4Ri690.html
[6:11pm] ikit: it-s: cool  thank
[6:11pm] piacentini: He does not want any Konnect4 variation, but is ok with the rename
[6:11pm] piacentini: Jason Harris also posted today to the ml: What about something more abstract, like "Phalanx", "Wall", "BlockIt"
[6:12pm] tsdgeos: yeah, that names are weird
[6:12pm] piacentini: So, two decisions: rename or not? And if so, to what?
[6:12pm] piacentini: As we are in freeze, maybe it is too late for this?
[6:12pm] tsdgeos: personally for a game, that does not need to be fancy named to attract people i'd go with KFourInLine
[6:12pm] tsdgeos: well
[6:12pm] tsdgeos: it's late, but we have release-team ok 
[6:12pm] piacentini: Anyone here objects to the rename?
[6:12pm] emilsedgh: i think rename should be good, i was looking for Kwin in KDE4 things months ago and all results were going to kwin4...
[6:12pm] piacentini: 30 sec
[6:13pm] Mkbart: KFourInLine, i like it
[6:13pm] mikelima: KFourInLine may be ok.
[6:13pm] piacentini: I think that if Martin preferred this one, we should use it
[6:13pm] piacentini: to please the maintainer
[6:13pm] • it-s goes to check the name avalability
[6:14pm] mikelima: KFourWins would be good too...
[6:14pm] piacentini: however, he does not want to do it
[6:14pm] tsdgeos: so we need a volunteer
[6:14pm] piacentini: I mean, one of us would have to do it.
[6:14pm] piacentini: I can try, but honestly Albert is best with this stuff 
[6:15pm] piacentini: But I know you are awfully busy as well
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: i can handle it
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: it's a one night thing
[6:15pm] piacentini: No need to rename the internal classes, etc
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: just give me an exact list of what we want
[6:15pm] piacentini: of course
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: .desktop rename
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: kapplication rename
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: .po rename
[6:15pm] piacentini: Let us do this together, people
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: new bugzilla
[6:16pm] mikelima: manual rename, entities..
[6:16pm] piacentini: About docs?
[6:16pm] piacentini: entities
[6:16pm] emilsedgh: and i will change the website stuff
[6:16pm] piacentini: I think this is the right time to do it, better than having problems with this confusion during the next 5 years
[6:16pm] mikelima: cant't think of anything else.
[6:16pm] tsdgeos: right, website too
[6:16pm] mikelima: Well the site, right.
[6:17pm] piacentini: emilsedgh: maybe add to the site that it was renamed?
[6:17pm] it-s: funny, but FourInLine returns a lot of persian sites 
[6:17pm] tsdgeos: emilsedgh: i'll mail you after i do the other sutff
[6:17pm] piacentini: In the KDE4 description
[6:17pm] emilsedgh: piacentini: ok, i will
[6:17pm] it-s: there is one underdog game called "FourInLine", but the name isn't registered
[6:17pm] emilsedgh: tsdgeos: thanks
[6:18pm] Mkbart: it-s: http://macgames.jp/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/fourinline.jpg
[6:18pm] tsdgeos: ok
[6:18pm] mikelima: Maybe it could be called Kuattro (quattro is four ib italian...)
[6:18pm] piacentini: That is ok, we have the K
[6:18pm] tsdgeos: i don't think will have a problem with that really
[6:18pm] mikelima: ok, joking...
[6:18pm] tsdgeos: but really really i'd go with the one that had martin approval
[6:19pm] piacentini: mikelima: actually a good idea
[6:19pm] piacentini: but
[6:19pm] piacentini: I second tsdgeos
[6:19pm] tsdgeos: mikelima: that'd get audi suing us about their quattro trademark 
[6:19pm] piacentini: So, next item? Website launch?
[6:19pm] piacentini: I think we are on track, it-s and emil?
[6:19pm] it-s: hold on one sec
[6:19pm] emilsedgh: well
[6:19pm] mikelima: tsdgeos: they trademarked a number?
[6:19pm] it-s: so what have we decided about the name?
[6:20pm] tsdgeos: did we skip "Last minute release duties" or was it just kwin4
[6:20pm] emilsedgh: KFourInLine agreed? everyone?
[6:20pm] tsdgeos: mikelima: ms has trademarked windows 
[6:20pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: good for me.
[6:20pm] Mkbart: emilsedgh: Yup
[6:20pm] piacentini: tsdgeos: skipped, will come back to it. It is rather generic 
[6:20pm] tsdgeos: piacentini: oka
[6:20pm] it-s: if "http://macgames.jp/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/fourinline.jpg" isn't a problem then sure
[6:20pm] tsdgeos: it isn't
[6:20pm] dimsuz joined the chat room.
[6:20pm] piacentini: Any name we pick will be criticized by someone, so...
[6:21pm] it-s: dimsuz: hi
[6:21pm] piacentini: hi dimsuz
[6:21pm] Mkbart: hello dimsuz
[6:21pm] dimsuz: hi guys 
[6:21pm] piacentini: Right in time, meeting in progress
[6:21pm] tsdgeos: dimsuz: hi man, we just agreeed to rename kwin4 to KFourInLine
[6:21pm] emilsedgh: hey dimsuz
[6:21pm] piacentini: Well guys, so about the website, do we need to discuss anything else?
[6:21pm] dimsuz: it's curious. I've completely forgotten about meeting, although I yesterday planned to attend :)))) came here to ask qt question 
[6:21pm] piacentini: Congratulations on the initiative of the banner btw
[6:21pm] it-s: the website is ready
[6:22pm] pcapriotti: hi, I'm here too...
[6:22pm] it-s: whe do we want to release it?
[6:22pm] dimsuz: I support this
[6:22pm] piacentini: Hi paolo
[6:22pm] tsdgeos: errr, sadly i HAVE to go dinnering, if you need something for me just write it to me in a /query
[6:22pm] it-s: tsdgeos: ejoy your dinner
[6:22pm] piacentini: tsdgeos: ok, see you sson
[6:22pm] piacentini: soon
[6:22pm] dimsuz: what's been decided with site?
[6:23pm] piacentini: it-s: let us release it in the same day KDE 4 is released?
[6:23pm] emilsedgh: website is almost done.there are a few issues which will be solved easily
[6:23pm] emilsedgh: piacentini: +1
[6:23pm] piacentini: it-s: unless... maybe you want to release it first, and use it as a teaser?
[6:23pm] emilsedgh: thats just only 28 days
[6:23pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: it's the one you can reach throug the normal site, right?
[6:23pm] it-s: one important thing about the website - I need EVERYONE to send me an email describing what you contributed to whoat game
[6:23pm] it-s: that's too broad
[6:24pm] it-s: we are trying to put together the Team page
[6:24pm] piacentini: it-s: suggestion: tomorrow, send an email to the mailing list, so all maintainers will pick this task
[6:24pm] emilsedgh: mikelima: sorry?
[6:24pm] it-s: piacentini: yes I will
[6:24pm] Mkbart: it-s: Theme for ktuberling, too?
[6:24pm] piacentini: mikelima: yes, it is at the new subdirectory
[6:24pm] it-s: Mkbart: anything
[6:24pm] Mkbart: k
[6:24pm] dimsuz: it-s: i agree with piacentini. drop a mail
[6:25pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: the new site, it can be reached through a link on the games.kde.org, I think.
[6:25pm] it-s: consider it's done
[6:25pm] emilsedgh: mikelima: yes
[6:25pm] kleag joined the chat room.
[6:25pm] piacentini: So congratulations again to the site team 
[6:25pm] dimsuz: hi kleag
[6:25pm] emilsedgh: mikelima: but thats not completely launched, you know
[6:25pm] it-s: mikelima: games.kde.org/new/
[6:25pm] piacentini: Hey kleag! I just mentioned I had an email from you
[6:25pm] dimsuz: yeah, you guys rock
[6:25pm] kleag: hello
[6:25pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: it looks perfect. Well, many games are in too many categories, but...
[6:25pm] piacentini: Right in time! We finished discussing the site, and would jump into 4.1 plans
[6:26pm] kleag: piacentini: perfect 
[6:26pm] emilsedgh: mikelima: they will be re-arranged soon
[6:26pm] it-s: mikelima: illusion of size... 
[6:26pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: yes, I supposed so.
[6:26pm] piacentini: So, I think it would be good to start planning for 4.1
[6:26pm] piacentini: even if it is 6 months away
[6:26pm] piacentini: Some of us can use the end of year period to work on new ideas, etc
[6:27pm] dimsuz: remind me i've a question regarding pending resize events 
[6:27pm] it-s: I have a list 
[6:27pm] kleag: sorry to be late, but are the toulouse students of ksirk here ?
[6:27pm] annma left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[6:27pm] piacentini: dimsuz: this can go in in "last minute duties"
[6:27pm] piacentini:
[6:27pm] piacentini: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting
[6:27pm] dimsuz: piacentini: agreed. not that comlex
[6:27pm] piacentini: Any toulouse person here? Raise your hand
[6:27pm] piacentini: Not annma
[6:27pm] dimsuz: another one: kgoldrunner is broken on startup
[6:28pm] it-s: firstly - unified interface (menubar names/subnames; toolbar buttons; etc)
[6:28pm] mikelima: it-s: keyboard shortcuts...
[6:28pm] mikelima: dimsuz: it does not start at all?
[6:29pm] piacentini: dimsuz: works here
[6:29pm] it-s: mikelima: excelent point
[6:29pm] dimsuz: mikelima: it starts. let me describe in short
[6:29pm] dimsuz: i start kgoldrunner
[6:29pm] dimsuz: have a "quick start" menu on screen
[6:29pm] dimsuz: I press "play"
[6:29pm] dimsuz: message box describing tutorial pops up on top quick start
[6:30pm] annma_ left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[6:30pm] dimsuz: when i try to press ok - quick start pops up above
[6:30pm] kleag: for 4.1, I'll try to have implemented (by me or another) a way to use jabber to ublish and join games
[6:30pm] dimsuz: => windows are jumping
[6:30pm] dimsuz: quite rude
[6:30pm] dimsuz: i have to put focus on first one, remove it, then remove second one - only then I'm able to play
[6:31pm] piacentini: dimsuz: can you post to the mailing list about it, so Ian or Luciano can try to have a look at it?
[6:31pm] mikelima: dimsuz: never seen that one.
[6:31pm] dimsuz: piacentini, mikelima: tried to run kgoldrunner in kde4 session? perhaps kwin issue
[6:31pm] mikelima: Yes remind us on the list.
[6:31pm] piacentini: dimsuz: good point, running on kde3
[6:31pm] mikelima: dimsuz: no, not in KDE4
[6:31pm] piacentini: maybe this is it
[6:31pm] dimsuz: that's the problem then
[6:31pm] it-s: I can't start KDE4 
[6:31pm] dimsuz: I'm seeing only in kde4 session
[6:32pm] piacentini: ok, so let us try to solve this, post to the list. It is a must-fix before the release thing
[6:32pm] mikelima: ok, about 4.1 stuff...
[6:32pm] mikelima: I'd like to have knewstuff for themes and levels in kgoldunner.
[6:32pm] kleag: i'm now working exclusively (even at work) in a kde4 session. It's really feasible
[6:32pm] mikelima: And sound support with phonon.
[6:33pm] dimsuz: piacentini: ok
[6:33pm] piacentini: mikelima: jpwhiting is the new KNewStuff guy
[6:33pm] piacentini: and he is here
[6:33pm] kleag: mikelima: +1 for knewstuff in ksirk
[6:33pm] dimsuz: i'll describe it in detail
[6:33pm] piacentini: And we will all abuse him in the next few months, as most games will get KNewStuff
[6:33pm] piacentini: Kmahjongg, Kmines, everything basically
[6:33pm] it-s: I have a list of things we spoke about on various ocasions: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dsj5pc9_3hswm5j
[6:33pm] pcapriotti: I would like to be able to use Plasma packages in kdegames
[6:34pm] pcapriotti: for themes, mostly
[6:34pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: how are they different from our theme format?
[6:34pm] piacentini: or better?
[6:34pm] kleag: pcapriotti: could you say more ?
[6:34pm] mikelima: pcapriotti: dont' know a thing about them...
[6:34pm] dimsuz:
[6:34pm] piacentini: it-s: nice doc. Maybe we can experiment with putting it in a wiki page, and collaborate?
[6:35pm] pcapriotti: well, they allow you to decide a directory structure for a package, and have a convenient api for accessing files
[6:35pm] it-s: piacentini: that was my next topic
[6:35pm] it-s: colaborative "Ideas" page
[6:35pm] it-s: we have a forum in planing (with Emil)
[6:35pm] mikelima: it-s: good points.
[6:35pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: what is the level of modification necessary to our current apps?
[6:35pm] it-s: but it's nowhere near complition
[6:35pm] piacentini: or theme formats?
[6:35pm] pcapriotti: they will also support accessing zipped packages directly
[6:36pm] pcapriotti: so they can be very handy when used together with kns
[6:36pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: seems interesting, just need to coordinate this maybe with jpwhiting
[6:36pm] piacentini: and one game
[6:36pm] piacentini: Gladly, no game is using KNS YET
[6:36pm] piacentini: so a change in theme packaging is a possibility for 4.1
[6:36pm] dimsuz: it-s: well, i think forum will be perhaps good to have, perhaps not. we should look if we'll have broad audience before launching it IMO
[6:37pm] pcapriotti: I just don't know if libplasma is going to be moved to kdelibs
[6:37pm] mikelima: piacentini: yes, but theming is already defined...
[6:37pm] pcapriotti: I would not like to have a copy of the library like amarok people do
[6:37pm] it-s: if I may put a suggestion: how about we choose a test game and implement into it all we can think of in a way that it can be extracted later?
[6:37pm] mikelima: having stats for the game usage would be interesting...
[6:37pm] it-s: let's say Kblocks
[6:38pm] piacentini: I am not sure really, if Paolo says it is ok
[6:38pm] piacentini: But to be honest, our scheme is not bad at this time
[6:38pm] piacentini: one svg, one desktop file
[6:38pm] piacentini: and most games are using svgz, so compression is not that important
[6:38pm] pcapriotti: piacentini: some games may need more than one svg
[6:39pm] pcapriotti: think about level data...
[6:39pm] pcapriotti: game extension plugins...
[6:39pm] mikelima: in kgoldrunner the theme has been split.
[6:39pm] mikelima: Plus, I want themes to include sounds.
[6:39pm] piacentini: Well, I am not familiar with it, and I trust you if you say it might be better
[6:39pm] pcapriotti: yeah, sounds
[6:39pm] piacentini: Just concerned if it would be possible to use these services without requiring a lot (or any) modification in our current format
[6:40pm] piacentini: But I understand it is just a way to describe the download pack, right?
[6:40pm] pcapriotti: piacentini: yes
[6:40pm] pcapriotti: piacentini: and some API to access it
[6:40pm] it-s: SVG=XML! can't we *embed* ALL the data into it?
[6:40pm] dimsuz: sorry for offtopic but if any developer here has free 5 secs, please take a look at my problem http://rafb.net/p/1hcVMx90.html . Or we may postpone answers to the end of meeting  just stuck at this
[6:40pm] mikelima: pcapriotti: is the pack decompressed when installed?
[6:40pm] pcapriotti: mikelima: you choose
[6:40pm] piacentini: OK, so no alteration in the format of the themes. Let us use it then
[6:40pm] piacentini: So, we must choose a game to test this (with other edu apps, and plasmoids)
[6:40pm] piacentini: and have it working in 4.1
[6:41pm] pcapriotti: note that a plasma package has its metadata in a desktop file, so the code reading it would not need to be changed
[6:41pm] dimsuz: but this can happen only if libplasma goes to kdelibs, yes?
[6:41pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: cool. I can work on KMines support for this then
[6:41pm] dimsuz: we don't want to depend on kdebase i guess
[6:41pm] piacentini: dimsuz: we can wait for the release that will have libplasma in kdelibs before we support KNS
[6:42pm] piacentini: (glad we cut KNS support for games 3 months ago!)
[6:42pm] it-s: but how does KNS depend on plasma?
[6:42pm] pinotree: piacentini: libplasma in kdelibs? better not, please
[6:42pm] dimsuz: piacentini: but it *will* have it?
[6:42pm] piacentini: I do not know anything about plasma really 
[6:43pm] piacentini: If the services necessary are not in kdelibs, then we should not use them
[6:43pm] mikelima: piacentini: it's hot air... 
[6:43pm] pcapriotti: ok, if libplasma is not going to be moved to kdelibs, I guess there's not much to talk about 
[6:43pm] piacentini: mikelima: lol
[6:43pm] it-s: I think it would be a better idea to have as little deps as possible
[6:43pm] it-s: we don't wan't to lose independance, do we  
[6:43pm] pcapriotti: yes, right, we shouldn't depend on kdebase
[6:43pm] pinotree: and libplasma won't be BC before 4.1
[6:44pm] mikelima: Well no need to rush things.
[6:44pm] piacentini: Idea: let us see how KNS evolves in the next month
[6:44pm] piacentini: And see what edu will use
[6:44pm] piacentini: And we can collaborate and follow them
[6:44pm] mikelima: I think new stuff may be tried in a game, then extended and ported over to other games/libkdegames
[6:44pm] it-s: thqat's a good plan
[6:44pm] it-s: I support
[6:44pm] piacentini: If pure KNS is good enough for them, it is definately good enough for us
[6:45pm] mikelima: For example, again.. sound.
[6:45pm] piacentini: I can try to work with Jeremy and put support for this in KMines
[6:45pm] piacentini: mikelima: edu has lots of data. If it works for their apps, we will be covered
[6:45pm] mikelima: We'll need a configure panel ( to chose sound/music level, disabling sound etc...)
[6:45pm] it-s: sound is a MUST for the next release... but we really have to invent a good framework to handle them
[6:45pm] dimsuz: it-s: phonon?
[6:46pm] mikelima: and common actions for muting/unmuting in all games.
[6:46pm] piacentini: it-s: Actually we don't...
[6:46pm] it-s: that's not what I meaned
[6:46pm] piacentini: Just some common actions
[6:46pm] piacentini: like mikelima said
[6:46pm] piacentini: And for games that really need finer control, they implement it
[6:46pm] it-s: what I was talking about is a 1 file pakaging method
[6:46pm] piacentini: But for mute/unmute and sound volume we can definately have standard stuff
[6:47pm] piacentini: it-s: KNS (I think) packs everything
[6:47pm] piacentini: right people?
[6:47pm] piacentini: You get a bundle
[6:47pm] it-s: a bundle of what?
[6:47pm] piacentini: of sound files
[6:47pm] piacentini: or anything you want to get
[6:48pm] it-s: right now we have all the data (graphics) in one dir and we're happy with that
[6:48pm] mikelima: piacentini: I think so, but I have not looked too closely.
[6:48pm] it-s: if the sound files will be all separated...
[6:48pm] jpwhiting: kns does work with any data you want to provide
[6:48pm] kleag: handling sound should be at a global level, no ? with a standard way to mix each app sound, whitout too complicated controls
[6:48pm] it-s: each theme will require a separate dir
[6:48pm] piacentini: kleag: phonon does that
[6:48pm] mikelima: well, I'd use a dir for each theme.
[6:48pm] mikelima: Right.
[6:48pm] kleag: piacentini: at the app level ?
[6:48pm] pcapriotti: (about packages: aseigo is telling me that for 4.1 they should somehow be available to the whole of kde)
[6:48pm] piacentini: it-s: that is an implementation detail, but agreed
[6:49pm] dimsuz_ joined the chat room.
[6:49pm] piacentini: kleag: clarify?
[6:49pm] piacentini: I mean mute/unmute only some sets of sounds?
[6:49pm] piacentini: Or control their relative volume?
[6:49pm] kleag: I mean you can make an app sound higher that another one like earing your game sound with music at th background
[6:49pm] dimsuz_: kleag: phonon takes care of that - it has categories
[6:49pm] piacentini: kleag: not sure how this is handled
[6:49pm] dimsuz_: game, music, etc
[6:50pm] dimsuz_: piacentini: ^^^
[6:50pm] piacentini: cool
[6:50pm] kleag: dimsuz_: great!
[6:50pm] mikelima: kleag, I asked to kretz, I think categories are meant for application categories..
[6:50pm] piacentini: In any event, you could also create your in-game sound manager that sets the streams volumes and send them to phonon
[6:50pm] it-s: I was thinking: I know SVG can incorporate raw images inside the file, can if do the same thing with sound files?
[6:50pm] mikelima: He said that we should handle relative volumes ourselves.
[6:51pm] piacentini: it-s: not really in an useful way
[6:51pm] mikelima: it-s: not really.
[6:51pm] piacentini: sounds have to play from disk
[6:51pm] piacentini: in most cases
[6:51pm] mikelima: but we have the .desktop files...
[6:51pm] kleag: mikelima: oh.
[6:52pm] piacentini: OK. I think we are drifting here!
[6:52pm] mikelima: kleag: well, it looks like it would not be hard stuff to do.
[6:52pm] it-s: piacentini is right
[6:52pm] piacentini: Let us concentrate on some topics: for 4.1, there are a lot of ideas
[6:52pm] it-s: we can spen the next eternity arguing
[6:52pm] jpwhiting: piacentini: so you want to try sound support in kmines first for kns use?
[6:52pm] piacentini: And I propose we start with Eugene's list, added to the techbase wiki
[6:52pm] it-s: yes
[6:52pm] kleag: mikelima: but then edu will have its sound control ui and kdegames too and office apps too...
[6:52pm] jpwhiting: nevermind, ping me later when you are not in a meeting 
[6:52pm] piacentini: jpwhiting: yes, it can be good. Not only sound, but new themes as well
[6:53pm] jpwhiting: yes
[6:53pm] piacentini: So, let us try some concrete stuff, like new apps for 4.1 
[6:53pm] piacentini: ksirk, kbreakout, kblocks are almost ready
[6:53pm] kleag: piacentini: good idea 
[6:53pm] pcapriotti: kollision!
[6:53pm] pcapriotti:
[6:53pm] piacentini: kollision as well!
[6:54pm] piacentini: What more?
[6:54pm] piacentini: pakman?
[6:54pm] mikelima: pcapriotti: kboard! err.. I mean tegua...
[6:54pm] pcapriotti: ah yeah, I almost finished the port to QGV
[6:54pm] mikelima: tagua
[6:54pm] Mkbart: hum, is there anything like "tiktaktoe" ?
[6:54pm] pcapriotti: yeah, what about tagua?
[6:54pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: waiting for you guys to declare it ready
[6:54pm] pcapriotti: piacentini: well, it is not at the moment, but we ahve time, right?
[6:54pm] piacentini: sure
[6:55pm] dimsuz_: hmm? tagua gets in kdegames? or?
[6:55pm] dimsuz_: ready for what?
[6:55pm] pcapriotti: is it a good candidate?
[6:55pm] piacentini: I think we will have at least until April before the freeze for 4.1
[6:55pm] kleag: Mkbart: the mykgame demo app is a tictactoe, but it is still to be ported to kde4
[6:55pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: it is an excellent one
[6:55pm] pcapriotti: isn't it too big, maybe?
[6:55pm] mikelima: Mkbart: I think tagua could handle tic-tac-toe as a module/plugin...
[6:55pm] Mkbart: kleag, mikelima: Oh, ok
[6:56pm] pcapriotti: yeah, tictactoe makes for an excellent tutorial of tagua plugin development 
[6:56pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: it adds lots of value to the module, so it is worth the footprint
[6:56pm] pcapriotti: ok, then, good  I hope to make it ready in time
[6:57pm] piacentini: I will resume working on KBlocks in January as well, and hopefully it will be ready in 1-2 weeks
[6:57pm] pcapriotti: for better planning: what is the approximate deadline for new additions to kde4.1?
[6:57pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: not defined yet
[6:57pm] piacentini: But not before March for sure
[6:58pm] dimsuz_: btw, i got a wish for katomic that it should support mirrored molecules as a solution to level. what do  you think? it may make sence...
[6:58pm] piacentini: Probably not before April or May
[6:58pm] pcapriotti: ok, plenty of time
[6:58pm] • dimsuz_ wants to check kblocks progress 
[6:58pm] piacentini: So, for the new authors, if you want to work on a game for 4.1:
[6:59pm] piacentini: you can start developing it at home, and when it is minimally working
[6:59pm] piacentini: import to playground/games
[6:59pm] piacentini: From there, it can be finished and maybe moved to kdereview when ready
[6:59pm] piacentini: If it passes the review, it can enter the main module
[7:00pm] Mkbart: I need to learn C++ more 
[7:00pm] piacentini: And we will probably have a dealine for this 2-3 months before 4.1 is out, which should be around April
[7:00pm] dimsuz_: piacentini: who is our new authors?
[7:00pm] it-s: don't forget Ktank. it will be superb once finished (and it will be soon)
[7:00pm] piacentini: DrIDK, ikit
[7:00pm] mikelima: it-s: can you tell/show more about ktank?
[7:01pm] piacentini: mikelima: can we do this after the agenda?
[7:01pm] piacentini: So that we do not run too late
[7:01pm] mikelima: piacentini: ok.
[7:01pm] dimsuz_: it-s: yeah. is it 3d?
[7:01pm] piacentini: We can finish the rest quickly, 15 minutes
[7:01pm] piacentini: and then chat about all the new stuff :0
[7:01pm] piacentini:
[7:01pm] it-s: mikelima: yes, here: http://ktank.free.fr/wordpress/
[7:01pm] piacentini: The missing item is really a brief discussion on what worked on our 4.0 effort
[7:02pm] piacentini: And what we can improve for 4.1
[7:02pm] it-s: dimsuz: yes and no
[7:02pm] pcapriotti: I think the release cycle went very smoothly
[7:02pm] piacentini: I think it was very good, but we lost some momentum at the end
[7:03pm] piacentini: Maybe because it was a long release
[7:03pm] pcapriotti: I can't see no obvious flaws
[7:03pm] pcapriotti: well, that depends on the individual motivation of people, and we can't do much about it
[7:03pm] pcapriotti: but the organization was very good, I think
[7:03pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: yes, and free time as well
[7:04pm] pcapriotti: of course, free time, too, which I have been missing lately 
[7:04pm] piacentini: I think we need to maintain our spirit of collaborative work on all tasks
[7:04pm] piacentini: For example: Johann has not been active, and as release manager he should have been present in this last effort
[7:04pm] piacentini: And we are suffering a bit from this
[7:05pm] piacentini: But some of us are trying to fill the gaps, and this is good. Depending on just one person is bad for our team
[7:05pm] mikelima: well, one problem is that the release date has changed many times...
[7:05pm] piacentini: As all of us will be busy one time or another
[7:05pm] it-s: well... he is really, really busy now
[7:05pm] piacentini: I am not criticizing him
[7:05pm] piacentini: Just using this example to tell why it is important not to depend on just one individual
[7:05pm] mikelima: So I did not work on things I feared would be too "risky" at the end of the release cycle.
[7:05pm] pcapriotti: no, of course, just pointing out we need replacements for important roles
[7:05pm] piacentini: The same as we do in almost all games
[7:06pm] piacentini: I think we still need a final "review" effort in the next two weeks
[7:06pm] pcapriotti: I agree
[7:06pm] piacentini: As there are some bugs appearing in games where the maintainer is not too active
[7:06pm] it-s: it has to be a third party
[7:06pm] mikelima: Not anyone fault anyway.
[7:06pm] piacentini: like some recent bugs in lskat, for example
[7:07pm] it-s: meaning that not one of us
[7:07pm] piacentini: it-s: I think 3rd party testing helps
[7:07pm] it-s: yes and that's why we need to invite someone for testing purposes
[7:07pm] piacentini: But we should also have a final look at everything if possible
[7:08pm] jpwhiting: it-s: piacentini: come to #kde4-krush on saturday, many testers congregate every week
[7:08pm] piacentini: jpwhiting: saturdays are not particularly good for me, but we should do it
[7:08pm] piacentini: yes, a krush day effort?
[7:08pm] piacentini: It has helped edu a lot
[7:09pm] dimsuz_: piacentini: and it will be better if persons not involved in game development would do the tests. sometimes this can reveal a lot of glitches
[7:09pm] jpwhiting: yes, and plasma, konq, kcm, anything that gets tested there has helped
[7:09pm] piacentini: I might be able to attend, but not sure. If anyone from the games team can join
[7:09pm] piacentini: It would be helpful at least to collect bugs, etc
[7:10pm] pcapriotti: there are already some entries for kdegames
[7:10pm] pcapriotti: http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Bugsquad/KrushDays#kdegames
[7:10pm] piacentini: OK, so I think we covered most of the topics. Let us continue some discussion over the mailing list regarding release stuff that we found out (problems)

This page was last edited on 27 March 2012, at 13:21. Content is available under Creative Commons License SA 4.0 unless otherwise noted.