[22:04:58] <it-s> Good ladies and gentlemen
[22:05:13] <it-s> welcome to KDEGames monthly meeting
[22:05:20] <it-s> (well almost monthly)
[22:05:41] <it-s> please assume your designated seats, we shall begin immidiatelly
[22:05:59] <piacentini> http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting
[22:06:09] <it-s> and to begin with please introduce yourselves
[22:06:29] <it-s> oh! IMPORTANT!!!! is anybody logging?
[22:06:39] <it-s> my logging is broken :P so I can't
[22:06:46] <piacentini> mauricio, maintainer of Kblocks/kmahjongg
[22:07:02] <smajewsky> stefan, maintainer of KDiamond, currently developing Palapeli and Kolf 2
[22:07:07] <piacentini> hi, niels, good to see you here
[22:07:07] <it-s> it-s, the graphic artist
[22:07:25] <tsdgeos> albert, ktuberling, kiriki, wiener ;-)
[22:07:29] <tsdgeos> it-s: i'm logging
[22:07:38] <it-s> tsdgeos: thanks
[22:07:44] <smajewsky> The meeting page still contains some topics from the last meeting (Kolf 2 and dead maintainers).
[22:08:09] <it-s> smajewsky: really?... you've got a great memory
[22:08:26] <smajewsky> Well, I was involved in both topics.
[22:08:26] <it-s> smajewsky: I don't even remember when the last meeting was :P
[22:08:32] <smajewsky> It was in November.
[22:08:44] <smajewsky> (I know that because I checked above page this morning.)
[22:08:48] <smajewsky> ;-)
[22:09:01] <it-s> wow! we should use you as a memory device from now on :D
[22:09:17] <smajewsky> That is not a good idea. I usually forget important things.
[22:09:40] <it-s> alright
[22:09:47] <it-s> back to the meting
[22:10:03] <it-s> piacentini: what are we supposed to be discussing?
[22:10:11] <it-s> lets start with GSoC
[22:10:11] <emilsedgh> im Emil, the website maintainer (if there is anything about it that sucks you can shout on me)
[22:10:15] <piacentini> I think the most pressing issues are Gsoc and 4.3
[22:10:32] <piacentini> If josef is alive here, he can contribute to the discussion
[22:10:40] <piacentini> as well as stefan and others with gsoc experience
[22:10:49] <it-s> josef|samba: are you alive?
[22:11:01] <piacentini> As I understand it, students have only untilk April 3th to submit proposals
[22:11:10] <smajewsky> Right.
[22:11:16] <smajewsky> See http://socghop.appspot.com/
[22:11:17] <piacentini> And we need more mentors. Who have registered so far?
[22:11:26] <tsdgeos> i'm registered
[22:11:27] <piacentini> And who intends to register?
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[22:11:35] <JLP> i am registered
[22:11:38] <tsdgeos> but don't plan to mentor anyone unless you come here and point to me with a gun
[22:11:48] <smajewsky> I'm registered, and have several students who want to work on Kolf 2 (two have submitted proposals already).
[22:12:00] <piacentini> I think I will as well, but my son is supposed to arrive in August, so... I am not sure I will be able to do much, or even go to Akademy
[22:12:45] <piacentini> So, Jure is also a mentor, good
[22:13:02] <tsdgeos> there's also "Parsek - KDE client for Thousand Parsec"
[22:13:10] <tsdgeos> JLP: didn't you wanted to do that as soc last year?
[22:13:18] <JLP> first time for kde, have been for TP for last 2 years also
[22:13:47] <JLP> tsdgeos: well i wanted to work on it myself but the free time dissapeared somewhere unknown :)
[22:13:55] <tsdgeos> he he
[22:14:14] <JLP> and then translations were higher priority then other stuff
[22:14:24] <piacentini> I was planning to add a proposal for a project-wide task, like sound-enabling everything
[22:14:39] <tsdgeos> then there's the mancala dudes that sent mails to the ml
[22:14:49] <it-s> piacentini: that would actually be a lot of work...
[22:14:58] <nielsslot> piacentini: hello to you to.. i kinda just arived at the keyboard now..
[22:15:20] <piacentini> For those who do not know Niels, he is the Kturtle maintainer
[22:15:32] <nielsslot> hello all :)
[22:15:46] <it-s> nielsslot: nice to meet you
[22:15:48] <piacentini> it-s: I am thinking that maybe we do not have project-wide, big tasks
[22:16:02] <piacentini> And that might be a reason why our smaller apps get declined every year
[22:16:05] <it-s> piacentini: that too. and we could all benefit from one
[22:16:22] <smajewsky> Networking could be a bigger task, as this could take 1 or 2 weeks per app. But that needs the KGGZ libs.
[22:16:25] <piacentini> But I am not experienced with the gsoc process to really guess
[22:16:29] <it-s> piacentini: did you submit a proposal then?
[22:16:45] <piacentini> it-s: I think there are two steps: one is to actually submit the ideas
[22:16:48] <CIA-34> coles * r946629 astrododge/trunk/playground/games/ (11 files in 7 dirs): Proof-reading.
[22:16:49] <piacentini> to our techbase page
[22:17:01] <tsdgeos> actually the techbase page itself is just a guidance
[22:17:02] <piacentini> And then the students are supposed to pick them up and submit proposals, is this right?
[22:17:12] <tsdgeos> what counts is what's there in the soc page
[22:17:24] <tsdgeos> you can very well submit a project that is not on the techbase page
[22:17:38] <piacentini> But who submits projects to google: mentors or students?
[22:17:40] <smajewsky> Right, the techbase page lists _ideas_ (as the name suggests).
[22:17:52] <tsdgeos> piacentini: students
[22:18:07] <tsdgeos> you can't guarantee mentorship because you can't guarantee he'll be picked
[22:18:14] <tsdgeos> mentors are assigned afterwards
[22:18:52] <piacentini> For the past few years, did we (KDE) pick new students as winners, or existing colaborators?
[22:19:08] <tsdgeos> mix
[22:19:40] <tsdgeos> can't give you a number
[22:19:48] <tsdgeos> but maybe 50/50
[22:19:55] <piacentini> Is there anyone here that is going to submit a proposal as a student, and needs help?
[22:21:11] <smajewsky> Seems like this is not the case.
[22:21:16] <piacentini> I am thinking that having more proposals (good ones of course) would probably help us secure at least one slot
[22:21:47] <piacentini> So what we could do is really encourage people to submit, and maybe listing more ideas could help. But there is not much time....
[22:21:50] <smajewsky> Actually, one really good proposal and one exceptionally good proposal is sent in already for Kolf.
[22:21:57] <tsdgeos> well, in 2007 we almost got a slot to implement AI in the scrabble game i was doing, just that i chose to mentor an okular project
[22:22:42] <smajewsky> I would really like to get two slots only for Kolf, but I'm concerned that this is not possible.
[22:22:51] <piacentini> Do you guys think there is a project wide task (like sound, or networking) that we can realistically expect a proposal for, and mentor correctly?
[22:23:31] <piacentini> The Kolf2 ones are good. I was thinking maybe something to help people complete KGLEngine, for example
[22:23:56] <smajewsky> I do not think sound support as a task is that big. I implemented sound support in KDiamond in ten minutes (through KNotify).
[22:24:02] <tsdgeos> piacentini: don't think so, our codebases are two different for a single approach to work
[22:24:26] <piacentini> smajewsky: notice that in this case it is not just adding sound, but also producing the sound files
[22:24:41] <piacentini> adding sound is indeed trivial
[22:24:51] <tsdgeos> piacentini: soc is about code, art is not accepted
[22:24:57] <JLP> which isn't covered by gsoc, as it is for coding only
[22:25:03] <Half-Left> yay, meeting
[22:25:07] <tsdgeos> or at least previous years, not sure this one
[22:25:15] <JLP> same this year
[22:25:29] <piacentini> JLP: I thought Plasma had some proposals that included both art and code, but thanks for setting the record straight
[22:25:58] <piacentini> So maybe we should instead focus on the 4 applications we already have
[22:26:06] <smajewsky> piacentini: Why should the students be required to paint Plasma elements? We have artists for taht.
[22:26:10] <piacentini> The two for Kolf, the mancala idea and Parsek
[22:27:09] <JLP> yeah, it's the idea of gsoc to show sudents how to contact other parts of community like in this case for artwork
[22:27:22] <JLP> but the student only does the coding
[22:27:34] <piacentini> smajewsky, JLP: understood
[22:27:48] <piacentini> Too bad, we should have a Google Summer of Art then
[22:28:08] <JLP> GHOP is for this
[22:28:45] <JLP> The Google Highly Open Participation
[22:29:30] <smajewsky> So are we focusing on the available ideas, or do we want to add new ideas?
[22:29:40] <tsdgeos> anyone has a new idea? :D
[22:30:00] <JLP> i expected some Gluon stuff there
[22:30:19] <JLP> but i'm not sure if they are prepared to mentor
[22:30:24] <smajewsky> FYI: Gluon = the new name for the triple of KALEngine, KCLEngine, and KGLEngine (for those who do not read planet)
[22:30:52] <piacentini> smajewsky: well, there is not much time, and realistically it appears that we have 3 ideas whose mentors are very willing to do the work
[22:30:54] <tsdgeos> not sure they are at a stage they can use a "outsider/newbie"
[22:31:07] <piacentini> Meaning the two for Kolf, and the Parsek one
[22:31:15] <piacentini> And we have the Mancala idea as well
[22:31:36] <smajewsky> Who would mentor Mancala, then?
[22:31:39] <piacentini> So maybe we could throw our weight over those, instead of spreading resources
[22:31:51] <JLP> well the one idea for parsek is quite good and the student communicated quite a bit with me
[22:31:58] <piacentini> I do not think we can dream of getting 4 slots
[22:32:06] <piacentini> More realistically, maybe one or two
[22:32:18] <smajewsky> Is 3 slots realistic (after three years of total abstinence)?
[22:32:22] <piacentini> So I would put Kolf and Parsek on top, IF the proposals are good
[22:32:42] <smajewsky> As I said, I have two really good proposals for Kolf.
[22:32:46] <piacentini> smajewsky: if we do get 3 and a very good mancala proposal, we should probably go for it
[22:32:58] <piacentini> But I would not back up 2 for Kolf if we only have 2 :)
[22:33:27] <piacentini> Better make it Kolf and Parsek then, imo. Of course, if the students for all are good...
[22:33:43] <tsdgeos> piacentini: actually you should aim the highest possible
[22:33:50] <CIA-34> wrohdewald * r946633 kmj/trunk/playground/games/kmj/ (board.py kmj.py): improve layout for alternative lightSource directions
[22:33:51] <piacentini> So let us aim for 4
[22:33:53] <tsdgeos> let the coordination team be the one that couts you down
[22:33:58] <piacentini> Two for Kolf, Parsek and Mancala
[22:34:06] <piacentini> Agreed?
[22:34:09] <smajewsky> Yes.
[22:34:11] <JLP> yeah, that sounds ok
[22:34:42] <smajewsky> Apropos, could we schedule a meeting next week, when the application review has started?
[22:35:10] <piacentini> I think we should, at least for the ones that register as mentors
[22:35:21] <tsdgeos> probably
[22:35:24] <smajewsky> As mailing list readers know, the system involves that the kdegames mentors rate kdegames applications. But I for one cannot easily rate the quality of a Parsek proposal.
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[22:36:23] <piacentini> smajewsky: If I read Jeff's email correctly, you would only rate as +1 or -1, right?
[22:36:29] <smajewsky> Yes.
[22:36:32] <piacentini> And then they will sort it out for the first round
[22:36:57] <piacentini> OK, so maybe a smaller meeting next week, to review what we got
[22:37:05] <piacentini> as a group
[22:37:15] <smajewsky> Sounds good.
[22:37:32] <smajewsky> Does that conclude the first meeting topic "Summer of code"?
[22:37:44] <piacentini> I think it does
[22:37:51] <smajewsky> it-s: next topic, please
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[22:38:33] <it-s> I honestly don't think we have a next topic :P
[22:38:46] <smajewsky> I think 4.3 was on the list.
[22:38:56] <it-s> piacentini: was there anything else we wanted to speak about?
[22:38:56] <tsdgeos> yeah
[22:39:10] <smajewsky> What do we need to talk about, concerning 4.3?
[22:39:16] <it-s> well 4.3 is coming soon, but what's there to talk about?
[22:39:17] <piacentini> 4.3 issues and timeline, I think
[22:39:24] <piacentini> good point
[22:39:25] <piacentini> :)
[22:39:43] <smajewsky> The soft freeze is approaching (7th of April). Do not forget to update the feature plan.
[22:39:45] <Half-Left> Some features I would like :p
[22:40:32] <it-s> there aren't any special apps we have that would be broken (save for kolf, but that's being worked on)
[22:41:06] <piacentini> Well, I fixed KMahjongg, sorry for breaking it in first place for 4.2 :)
[22:41:18] <smajewsky> Kolf is not broken. Only very quirky and the code is a mess.
[22:41:22] <it-s> piacentini: I don't think anyone has noticed
[22:41:28] <piacentini> it-s: which is sad
[22:41:31] <piacentini> :)
[22:41:36] <it-s> piacentini: I know :/
[22:41:36] <smajewsky> piacentini: What broke?
[22:41:39] <piacentini> but a good social experiment
[22:41:54] <piacentini> smajewsky: a Krazy fix gone wild, the game was apparently working correctly
[22:42:00] <it-s> piacentini: what do you think of adding kpat-like start up screen?
[22:42:02] <piacentini> But it would require luck to complete it
[22:42:18] <piacentini> it-s: I like the idea a lot, not sure if I will be able to implement it before the hard freeze
[22:42:33] <it-s> piacentini: sure
[22:42:34] <piacentini> As I am going to travel for two weeks in April
[22:42:36] <tsdgeos> piacentini: the shadows-bug reported today sucks :D
[22:42:49] <piacentini> tsdgeos: what are those? let me check
[22:42:59] <it-s> maybe we should follow plasma, and go extragear, to be immune to freezes? LOL
[22:43:17] <smajewsky> piacentini: Clicking on a tile's shadow will select this tile instead for the tile under the shadow.
[22:43:50] <piacentini> oh, that sucks indeed. but not sure how to fix it really. have to think
[22:43:52] <Half-Left> Damn, I really need to crack on with artwork
[22:44:10] <piacentini> in any way, clicks are not counted towards score or anything like that, so bad, but not critical
[22:44:49] <it-s> piacentini: maybe the shadows could be soft generated, instead of prerendered?
[22:45:29] <piacentini> That is an idea, but it will make the current tilesets obsolete. We could rework then of course
[22:45:47] <piacentini> at this point it would be better to simply go 3d really
[22:45:54] <smajewsky> piacentini: Check whether the pixmap is transparent at this point?
[22:46:26] <it-s> piacentini: well... we do have KGLEngine... *hum-hum*
[22:46:29] <smajewsky> (Provided that KMahjongg pre-renders SVG parts into pixmaps.)
[22:46:29] <piacentini> smajewsky: we do have the coordinates for the tileset face, so there are some ways to work from there and attempt to exclude the shadows. Will have to see it
[22:47:13] <smajewsky> piacentini: The hard point is that QGraphicsItem only allows to completely accept or completely reject mouse events. (Or is there some mask() method you can override?)
[22:47:37] <piacentini> But really, the point is that one of the games that are considered "big" can go broken for a major release, and no one (save 2 guys in the world) notice it
[22:48:08] <it-s> piacentini: :(
[22:48:18] <piacentini> So maybe, maybe we are not doing things in a way tha makes our games relevant, not sure. Not trying to be pessimistic, just trying to learn with the reality
[22:48:20] <it-s> piacentini: that has to do with distros
[22:48:29] <smajewsky> it-s: Didn't you introduce a testing day or such things?
[22:48:43] <smajewsky> Apart from that, what is done to publicize kdegames?
[22:49:03] <it-s> smajewsky: we tried to advertise on linux gaming sites
[22:49:04] <piacentini> smajewsky: Kmahjongg does not use QGV, but KGameCanvas. So I think we have shortcuts for this problem
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[22:49:30] <smajewsky> piacentini: Okay, did not know that.
[22:49:47] <it-s> problem is that if there is a problem distros will just fix it, or use the older version
[22:49:56] <piacentini> One thing that I got from CampKDE is that people feel strongly for some ideas we could use in kdegames
[22:50:01] <it-s> so the people who are using distros will not know there is one
[22:50:14] <it-s> piacentini: like what?
[22:50:24] <piacentini> The one mentioned the most was to create a sort of RPG Maker or games creator, something the users could play with to really customize the games
[22:50:31] <smajewsky> it-s: We should try to increase awareness among interested KDE users (through Planet blogs or Dot articles), because from this user base come testers.
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[22:50:38] <tsdgeos> piacentini: the thing ks that kde4.2 is still not shipped in any "big" distro release afaik
[22:50:50] <sandsmark> ArchLinux is a pretty big distro
[22:50:54] <piacentini> tsdgeos:, yeah, you have a point. Maybe that is good, we have time
[22:50:56] <smajewsky> tsdgeos: Only one week to go.
[22:51:07] <piacentini> But for KDE 4.3, we need to be really good
[22:51:10] <smajewsky> Or when is Jaunty released?
[22:51:21] <nielsslot> jaunty is in a month
[22:51:23] <tsdgeos> end of next month
[22:51:34] <piacentini> tsdgeos: gladly I fixed the bug for 4.2.2
[22:51:38] <smajewsky> Ah, I thought it was at the beginning of April.
[22:52:07] <sandsmark> http://lifehacker.com/5170138/five-best-linux-distributions :D
[22:53:04] <it-s> smajewsky: what would we publish on planet? we can't keep reposting the same set of games over, and over again. and no major updates have been made in month :/
[22:53:50] <it-s> well, Opensuse is KDE centric, but they are very KDEGames unfriendly
[22:54:11] <JLP> maybe have sum kd games bugday together with bugsquad before 4.3 gets tagged?
[22:54:18] <it-s> up to the point where they cripple all of our games to only have one theme, by removing all the other
[22:54:40] <Half-Left> it-s: Kubuntu doesn't even have kdegames installed
[22:55:45] <it-s> Half-Left: Kubuntu is a dead bit, as much as it's maintainers try, they can never bring it in line with ubuntu, or the rest of the world. they lack manpower
[22:56:07] <smajewsky> JLP: Good idea.
[22:56:17] <Half-Left> it-s: Well the new version just release in Beta is upto standard
[22:56:19] <piacentini> JLP: good idea
[22:56:36] <it-s> Half-Left: adding kdegames means they will have to allocate people to take care of it, and they don't have any available :)
[22:57:24] <smajewsky> In which way are they exactly taking care of it (instead of packaging, which they do in every case)?
[22:57:25] <Half-Left> True but this Jaunty release is looking very good, all their tools are Qt4 based
[22:57:48] <it-s> Half-Left: for real? coll. in that case I may even take a look
[22:58:22] <Half-Left> it-s: Yer, it's impressed me for sure, all Qt4 from install to Desktop, updater
[22:58:23] <sandsmark> Half-Left: they use qt4 for the front, at least
[22:58:39] <sandsmark> Half-Left: did you try uninstalling gtk ? :p
[22:58:50] <Half-Left> Nope, not yetm all have to
[22:58:54] <it-s> piacentini: by the way, the fact that only two people reported the bug doesn't mean no one plays the game, it only means that only 2 people had it compiled from trunk, and played the game
[22:59:24] <JLP> ok i can then get in contact with other bugsquad people and see if they have any opening for us
[22:59:24] <sandsmark> ... and took the time to fight with bugzilla
[22:59:29] <piacentini> it-s: ok, I was maybe exagerating a bit
[22:59:34] <smajewsky> it-s: It means that two people noticed the bug _and_ reported it.
[22:59:53] <it-s> smajewsky: and that too :)
[22:59:59] <smajewsky> I for one tend to not report bugs that are just plain obvious (out of laziness, I know that it's a bad habit).
[23:00:05] <Half-Left> sandsmark: it's deb so unlike RPM it won't take half your system down :p
[23:00:21] <sandsmark> Half-Left: it will just take half a day to calculate shit :p
[23:00:28] <Half-Left> lol
[23:00:44] <smajewsky> Half-Left: My package manager resolves dependencies in three seconds, for 370 updates (new KDE 4 version).
[23:00:55] <it-s> I actually did uninstall GTK off my netbook (running OpenSUSE) that was a pain :P
[23:00:58] <sandsmark> I installed ~150 packages in under 10 seconds here
[23:01:18] <sandsmark> ( from I selecting update )
[23:01:25] <it-s> well, anyhow
[23:01:27] <Half-Left> smajewsky: Just some RPM distros have terrible deps
[23:01:34] <it-s> should we call it a day?
[23:01:56] <smajewsky> Call what?
[23:02:07] <it-s> should we finish the meeting?
[23:02:09] <it-s> :P
[23:02:12] <piacentini> it-s: I think we should. Unless someone has a crazy idea to make kdegames in 4.3 better?
[23:02:16] <it-s> pardon me my slang
[23:02:26] <piacentini> Or is thinking about some way to improve our processes
[23:02:28] -*- sandsmark has a gsoc idea for kdegames :D
[23:02:29] <smajewsky> it-s: Ah, so that's a saying.
[23:02:37] <smajewsky> sandsmark: Say it.
[23:02:46] <sandsmark> smajewsky: telepathy integration
[23:02:48] <Half-Left> kdegames in 4.3 already is better :)
[23:02:59] <it-s> well we could set the guiness record and recode the entire module into OpenGL 3D in 2 weeks time, but I don't think it's possible :P
[23:03:05] <sandsmark> smajewsky: so you can play any game against any of your IM contacts ;)
[23:03:35] <sandsmark> ( but that will have to wait for 4.4 anyways )
[23:04:14] <smajewsky> sandsmark: That requires KGGZ libs to be available, and I do not know when they will finally come. Also, there will perhaps be a GSoC task to extract the Kopete chat widget into a library (which would reduce the complexity of the task quite a bit).
[23:04:22] <it-s> alright. the meeting is done then.
[23:04:27] <smajewsky> Good night.
[23:04:30] <sandsmark> gnight
[23:04:33] <it-s> thanks to all who participated