Difference between revisions of "KDE Games/IRC Meetings/2007-12-13-log"

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[7:10pm] pcapriotti: http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Bugsquad/KrushDays#kdegames
 
[7:10pm] pcapriotti: http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Bugsquad/KrushDays#kdegames
 
[7:10pm] piacentini: OK, so I think we covered most of the topics. Let us continue some discussion over the mailing list regarding release stuff that we found out (problems)
 
[7:10pm] piacentini: OK, so I think we covered most of the topics. Let us continue some discussion over the mailing list regarding release stuff that we found out (problems)
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Revision as of 20:57, 29 June 2011

[6:00pm] piacentini: Hey people, let us start the meeting? And keep it short?
[6:01pm] piacentini: Lots of new people today
[6:01pm] piacentini: If someone wants to introduce him or herself, please do (1 minute!)
[6:01pm] piacentini: And then we can jump to the agenda
[6:01pm] piacentini: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting
[6:02pm] tsdgeos: Albert Astals Cid, ktuberling, kiriki, lots of nagging, KDE all around dude
[6:02pm] piacentini: Mauricio Piacentini, working on Kmahjongg, Kmines and KTurtle. And in the middle of an email-frenzy today
[6:03pm] emilsedgh: Emil Sedgh, website, nah nothing more 
[6:03pm] piacentini: OK, let us start with the agenda then.... Last minute release duties
[6:03pm] it-s: oh, before we get too far
[6:04pm] Mkbart: Mkbart, new guy, nothing important yet 
[6:04pm] mikelima: Luciano Montanaro, kgoldrunner, a bit of artwork
[6:04pm] piacentini: go it-s
[6:04pm] it-s: Please let me introduce to the all of you
[6:04pm] it-s: DrIDK
[6:04pm] it-s: and ikit
[6:04pm] Mkbart: Or if you want, Michał Bartecki 
[6:04pm] it-s: they are the 2 new devs
[6:04pm] it-s: who are working on a new and exciting game for KDEGames
[6:04pm] it-s: KTanks
[6:05pm] piacentini: cool, welcome!
[6:05pm] piacentini: it should be great as we plan to cover 4.1 plans as well
[6:05pm] it-s: I'm not sure if they're here to speak for themselves, but I just wanted everybody to know them and support the development
[6:05pm] mikelima: welcome, DrIDK, ikit
[6:05pm] tsdgeos: yeah, welcome 
[6:05pm] emilsedgh: thirded, welcome
[6:06pm] piacentini: I got emails from Martin Heni and kleag as well
[6:06pm] it-s: there is another peson whom I wanted to introduce, but that person isn't here unfortunatly, so we will leave it for the next meeting
[6:06pm] piacentini: they will not be able to attend, but had some info to share
[6:06pm] tsdgeos: ok, share 
[6:06pm] piacentini: it-s: did you manage to contact Johann in the last few days
[6:06pm] piacentini: ?
[6:06pm] it-s: oh right!
[6:07pm] it-s: sorry
[6:07pm] piacentini: Martin Heni wrote about the KWin4 rename proposal, listed in the agenda
[6:07pm] piacentini: To refresh
[6:07pm] it-s: Johann apologises heartly, but he's got 2 jobs and is doing stuff for Kopete as well
[6:07pm] piacentini: Dirk and others from the release team expressed the idea to rename kwin4 in order to avoid confusion with kwin, the window manager
[6:07pm] piacentini: There was some discussion about it
[6:08pm] tsdgeos: yeah, more now that we are in KDE4
[6:08pm] tsdgeos: we have two kwin4 
[6:08pm] piacentini: But I spoke today with winterz (release coordinator)
[6:08pm] mikelima: piacentini: that makes sense.
[6:08pm] piacentini: And he felt it might not be the best time for this change, if it is too cumbersome
[6:08pm] ikit: mikelima: hi
[6:08pm] piacentini: However, if we decide to do it, we need to pick a name today, and do it
[6:08pm] it-s: ikit: oh you're right in time
[6:08pm] tsdgeos: do we know exactly what it involves?
[6:09pm] annma_ joined the chat room.
[6:09pm] piacentini: tsdgeos: I imagine changing the .desktop file and executable name, and renaming the dir?
[6:09pm] mikelima: piacentini: is four-wins or something similar already taken?
[6:09pm] ikit: it-s: I don't understand... :s
[6:09pm] tsdgeos: piacentini: bugzilla too
[6:09pm] piacentini: tsdgeos: yes, I am completely lost regarding bugzilla
[6:10pm] piacentini: need to learn it
[6:10pm] it-s: ikit: we have our monthly meeting today
[6:10pm] tsdgeos: well, in bugzilla rather create a new name
[6:10pm] tsdgeos: because kwin4 will still exist in kde3
[6:10pm] it-s: ikit: I just introduced you and DrIDK as Ktank developers, so everyone know who you are
[6:10pm] piacentini: let me paste Martin's email to the paste bin
[6:10pm] piacentini: http://rafb.net/p/7J4Ri690.html
[6:11pm] ikit: it-s: cool  thank
[6:11pm] piacentini: He does not want any Konnect4 variation, but is ok with the rename
[6:11pm] piacentini: Jason Harris also posted today to the ml: What about something more abstract, like "Phalanx", "Wall", "BlockIt"
[6:12pm] tsdgeos: yeah, that names are weird
[6:12pm] piacentini: So, two decisions: rename or not? And if so, to what?
[6:12pm] piacentini: As we are in freeze, maybe it is too late for this?
[6:12pm] tsdgeos: personally for a game, that does not need to be fancy named to attract people i'd go with KFourInLine
[6:12pm] tsdgeos: well
[6:12pm] tsdgeos: it's late, but we have release-team ok 
[6:12pm] piacentini: Anyone here objects to the rename?
[6:12pm] emilsedgh: i think rename should be good, i was looking for Kwin in KDE4 things months ago and all results were going to kwin4...
[6:12pm] piacentini: 30 sec
[6:13pm] Mkbart: KFourInLine, i like it
[6:13pm] mikelima: KFourInLine may be ok.
[6:13pm] piacentini: I think that if Martin preferred this one, we should use it
[6:13pm] piacentini: to please the maintainer
[6:13pm] • it-s goes to check the name avalability
[6:14pm] mikelima: KFourWins would be good too...
[6:14pm] piacentini: however, he does not want to do it
[6:14pm] tsdgeos: so we need a volunteer
[6:14pm] piacentini: I mean, one of us would have to do it.
[6:14pm] piacentini: I can try, but honestly Albert is best with this stuff 
[6:15pm] piacentini: But I know you are awfully busy as well
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: i can handle it
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: it's a one night thing
[6:15pm] piacentini: No need to rename the internal classes, etc
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: just give me an exact list of what we want
[6:15pm] piacentini: of course
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: .desktop rename
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: kapplication rename
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: .po rename
[6:15pm] piacentini: Let us do this together, people
[6:15pm] tsdgeos: new bugzilla
[6:16pm] mikelima: manual rename, entities..
[6:16pm] piacentini: About docs?
[6:16pm] piacentini: entities
[6:16pm] emilsedgh: and i will change the website stuff
[6:16pm] piacentini: I think this is the right time to do it, better than having problems with this confusion during the next 5 years
[6:16pm] mikelima: cant't think of anything else.
[6:16pm] tsdgeos: right, website too
[6:16pm] mikelima: Well the site, right.
[6:17pm] piacentini: emilsedgh: maybe add to the site that it was renamed?
[6:17pm] it-s: funny, but FourInLine returns a lot of persian sites 
[6:17pm] tsdgeos: emilsedgh: i'll mail you after i do the other sutff
[6:17pm] piacentini: In the KDE4 description
[6:17pm] emilsedgh: piacentini: ok, i will
[6:17pm] it-s: there is one underdog game called "FourInLine", but the name isn't registered
[6:17pm] emilsedgh: tsdgeos: thanks
[6:18pm] Mkbart: it-s: http://macgames.jp/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/fourinline.jpg
[6:18pm] tsdgeos: ok
[6:18pm] mikelima: Maybe it could be called Kuattro (quattro is four ib italian...)
[6:18pm] piacentini: That is ok, we have the K
[6:18pm] tsdgeos: i don't think will have a problem with that really
[6:18pm] mikelima: ok, joking...
[6:18pm] tsdgeos: but really really i'd go with the one that had martin approval
[6:19pm] piacentini: mikelima: actually a good idea
[6:19pm] piacentini: but
[6:19pm] piacentini: I second tsdgeos
[6:19pm] tsdgeos: mikelima: that'd get audi suing us about their quattro trademark 
[6:19pm] piacentini: So, next item? Website launch?
[6:19pm] piacentini: I think we are on track, it-s and emil?
[6:19pm] it-s: hold on one sec
[6:19pm] emilsedgh: well
[6:19pm] mikelima: tsdgeos: they trademarked a number?
[6:19pm] it-s: so what have we decided about the name?
[6:20pm] tsdgeos: did we skip "Last minute release duties" or was it just kwin4
[6:20pm] emilsedgh: KFourInLine agreed? everyone?
[6:20pm] tsdgeos: mikelima: ms has trademarked windows 
[6:20pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: good for me.
[6:20pm] Mkbart: emilsedgh: Yup
[6:20pm] piacentini: tsdgeos: skipped, will come back to it. It is rather generic 
[6:20pm] tsdgeos: piacentini: oka
[6:20pm] it-s: if "http://macgames.jp/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/fourinline.jpg" isn't a problem then sure
[6:20pm] tsdgeos: it isn't
[6:20pm] dimsuz joined the chat room.
[6:20pm] piacentini: Any name we pick will be criticized by someone, so...
[6:21pm] it-s: dimsuz: hi
[6:21pm] piacentini: hi dimsuz
[6:21pm] Mkbart: hello dimsuz
[6:21pm] dimsuz: hi guys 
[6:21pm] piacentini: Right in time, meeting in progress
[6:21pm] tsdgeos: dimsuz: hi man, we just agreeed to rename kwin4 to KFourInLine
[6:21pm] emilsedgh: hey dimsuz
[6:21pm] piacentini: Well guys, so about the website, do we need to discuss anything else?
[6:21pm] dimsuz: it's curious. I've completely forgotten about meeting, although I yesterday planned to attend :)))) came here to ask qt question 
[6:21pm] piacentini: Congratulations on the initiative of the banner btw
[6:21pm] it-s: the website is ready
[6:22pm] pcapriotti: hi, I'm here too...
[6:22pm] it-s: whe do we want to release it?
[6:22pm] dimsuz: I support this
[6:22pm] piacentini: Hi paolo
[6:22pm] tsdgeos: errr, sadly i HAVE to go dinnering, if you need something for me just write it to me in a /query
[6:22pm] it-s: tsdgeos: ejoy your dinner
[6:22pm] piacentini: tsdgeos: ok, see you sson
[6:22pm] piacentini: soon
[6:22pm] dimsuz: what's been decided with site?
[6:23pm] piacentini: it-s: let us release it in the same day KDE 4 is released?
[6:23pm] emilsedgh: website is almost done.there are a few issues which will be solved easily
[6:23pm] emilsedgh: piacentini: +1
[6:23pm] piacentini: it-s: unless... maybe you want to release it first, and use it as a teaser?
[6:23pm] emilsedgh: thats just only 28 days
[6:23pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: it's the one you can reach throug the normal site, right?
[6:23pm] it-s: one important thing about the website - I need EVERYONE to send me an email describing what you contributed to whoat game
[6:23pm] it-s: that's too broad
[6:24pm] it-s: we are trying to put together the Team page
[6:24pm] piacentini: it-s: suggestion: tomorrow, send an email to the mailing list, so all maintainers will pick this task
[6:24pm] emilsedgh: mikelima: sorry?
[6:24pm] it-s: piacentini: yes I will
[6:24pm] Mkbart: it-s: Theme for ktuberling, too?
[6:24pm] piacentini: mikelima: yes, it is at the new subdirectory
[6:24pm] it-s: Mkbart: anything
[6:24pm] Mkbart: k
[6:24pm] dimsuz: it-s: i agree with piacentini. drop a mail
[6:25pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: the new site, it can be reached through a link on the games.kde.org, I think.
[6:25pm] it-s: consider it's done
[6:25pm] emilsedgh: mikelima: yes
[6:25pm] kleag joined the chat room.
[6:25pm] piacentini: So congratulations again to the site team 
[6:25pm] dimsuz: hi kleag
[6:25pm] emilsedgh: mikelima: but thats not completely launched, you know
[6:25pm] it-s: mikelima: games.kde.org/new/
[6:25pm] piacentini: Hey kleag! I just mentioned I had an email from you
[6:25pm] dimsuz: yeah, you guys rock
[6:25pm] kleag: hello
[6:25pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: it looks perfect. Well, many games are in too many categories, but...
[6:25pm] piacentini: Right in time! We finished discussing the site, and would jump into 4.1 plans
[6:26pm] kleag: piacentini: perfect 
[6:26pm] emilsedgh: mikelima: they will be re-arranged soon
[6:26pm] it-s: mikelima: illusion of size... 
[6:26pm] mikelima: emilsedgh: yes, I supposed so.
[6:26pm] piacentini: So, I think it would be good to start planning for 4.1
[6:26pm] piacentini: even if it is 6 months away
[6:26pm] piacentini: Some of us can use the end of year period to work on new ideas, etc
[6:27pm] dimsuz: remind me i've a question regarding pending resize events 
[6:27pm] it-s: I have a list 
[6:27pm] kleag: sorry to be late, but are the toulouse students of ksirk here ?
[6:27pm] annma left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[6:27pm] piacentini: dimsuz: this can go in in "last minute duties"
[6:27pm] piacentini:
[6:27pm] piacentini: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting
[6:27pm] dimsuz: piacentini: agreed. not that comlex
[6:27pm] piacentini: Any toulouse person here? Raise your hand
[6:27pm] piacentini: Not annma
[6:27pm] dimsuz: another one: kgoldrunner is broken on startup
[6:28pm] it-s: firstly - unified interface (menubar names/subnames; toolbar buttons; etc)
[6:28pm] mikelima: it-s: keyboard shortcuts...
[6:28pm] mikelima: dimsuz: it does not start at all?
[6:29pm] piacentini: dimsuz: works here
[6:29pm] it-s: mikelima: excelent point
[6:29pm] dimsuz: mikelima: it starts. let me describe in short
[6:29pm] dimsuz: i start kgoldrunner
[6:29pm] dimsuz: have a "quick start" menu on screen
[6:29pm] dimsuz: I press "play"
[6:29pm] dimsuz: message box describing tutorial pops up on top quick start
[6:30pm] annma_ left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[6:30pm] dimsuz: when i try to press ok - quick start pops up above
[6:30pm] kleag: for 4.1, I'll try to have implemented (by me or another) a way to use jabber to ublish and join games
[6:30pm] dimsuz: => windows are jumping
[6:30pm] dimsuz: quite rude
[6:30pm] dimsuz: i have to put focus on first one, remove it, then remove second one - only then I'm able to play
[6:31pm] piacentini: dimsuz: can you post to the mailing list about it, so Ian or Luciano can try to have a look at it?
[6:31pm] mikelima: dimsuz: never seen that one.
[6:31pm] dimsuz: piacentini, mikelima: tried to run kgoldrunner in kde4 session? perhaps kwin issue
[6:31pm] mikelima: Yes remind us on the list.
[6:31pm] piacentini: dimsuz: good point, running on kde3
[6:31pm] mikelima: dimsuz: no, not in KDE4
[6:31pm] piacentini: maybe this is it
[6:31pm] dimsuz: that's the problem then
[6:31pm] it-s: I can't start KDE4 
[6:31pm] dimsuz: I'm seeing only in kde4 session
[6:32pm] piacentini: ok, so let us try to solve this, post to the list. It is a must-fix before the release thing
[6:32pm] mikelima: ok, about 4.1 stuff...
[6:32pm] mikelima: I'd like to have knewstuff for themes and levels in kgoldunner.
[6:32pm] kleag: i'm now working exclusively (even at work) in a kde4 session. It's really feasible
[6:32pm] mikelima: And sound support with phonon.
[6:33pm] dimsuz: piacentini: ok
[6:33pm] piacentini: mikelima: jpwhiting is the new KNewStuff guy
[6:33pm] piacentini: and he is here
[6:33pm] kleag: mikelima: +1 for knewstuff in ksirk
[6:33pm] dimsuz: i'll describe it in detail
[6:33pm] piacentini: And we will all abuse him in the next few months, as most games will get KNewStuff
[6:33pm] piacentini: Kmahjongg, Kmines, everything basically
[6:33pm] it-s: I have a list of things we spoke about on various ocasions: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dsj5pc9_3hswm5j
[6:33pm] pcapriotti: I would like to be able to use Plasma packages in kdegames
[6:34pm] pcapriotti: for themes, mostly
[6:34pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: how are they different from our theme format?
[6:34pm] piacentini: or better?
[6:34pm] kleag: pcapriotti: could you say more ?
[6:34pm] mikelima: pcapriotti: dont' know a thing about them...
[6:34pm] dimsuz:
[6:34pm] piacentini: it-s: nice doc. Maybe we can experiment with putting it in a wiki page, and collaborate?
[6:35pm] pcapriotti: well, they allow you to decide a directory structure for a package, and have a convenient api for accessing files
[6:35pm] it-s: piacentini: that was my next topic
[6:35pm] it-s: colaborative "Ideas" page
[6:35pm] it-s: we have a forum in planing (with Emil)
[6:35pm] mikelima: it-s: good points.
[6:35pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: what is the level of modification necessary to our current apps?
[6:35pm] it-s: but it's nowhere near complition
[6:35pm] piacentini: or theme formats?
[6:35pm] pcapriotti: they will also support accessing zipped packages directly
[6:36pm] pcapriotti: so they can be very handy when used together with kns
[6:36pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: seems interesting, just need to coordinate this maybe with jpwhiting
[6:36pm] piacentini: and one game
[6:36pm] piacentini: Gladly, no game is using KNS YET
[6:36pm] piacentini: so a change in theme packaging is a possibility for 4.1
[6:36pm] dimsuz: it-s: well, i think forum will be perhaps good to have, perhaps not. we should look if we'll have broad audience before launching it IMO
[6:37pm] pcapriotti: I just don't know if libplasma is going to be moved to kdelibs
[6:37pm] mikelima: piacentini: yes, but theming is already defined...
[6:37pm] pcapriotti: I would not like to have a copy of the library like amarok people do
[6:37pm] it-s: if I may put a suggestion: how about we choose a test game and implement into it all we can think of in a way that it can be extracted later?
[6:37pm] mikelima: having stats for the game usage would be interesting...
[6:37pm] it-s: let's say Kblocks
[6:38pm] piacentini: I am not sure really, if Paolo says it is ok
[6:38pm] piacentini: But to be honest, our scheme is not bad at this time
[6:38pm] piacentini: one svg, one desktop file
[6:38pm] piacentini: and most games are using svgz, so compression is not that important
[6:38pm] pcapriotti: piacentini: some games may need more than one svg
[6:39pm] pcapriotti: think about level data...
[6:39pm] pcapriotti: game extension plugins...
[6:39pm] mikelima: in kgoldrunner the theme has been split.
[6:39pm] mikelima: Plus, I want themes to include sounds.
[6:39pm] piacentini: Well, I am not familiar with it, and I trust you if you say it might be better
[6:39pm] pcapriotti: yeah, sounds
[6:39pm] piacentini: Just concerned if it would be possible to use these services without requiring a lot (or any) modification in our current format
[6:40pm] piacentini: But I understand it is just a way to describe the download pack, right?
[6:40pm] pcapriotti: piacentini: yes
[6:40pm] pcapriotti: piacentini: and some API to access it
[6:40pm] it-s: SVG=XML! can't we *embed* ALL the data into it?
[6:40pm] dimsuz: sorry for offtopic but if any developer here has free 5 secs, please take a look at my problem http://rafb.net/p/1hcVMx90.html . Or we may postpone answers to the end of meeting  just stuck at this
[6:40pm] mikelima: pcapriotti: is the pack decompressed when installed?
[6:40pm] pcapriotti: mikelima: you choose
[6:40pm] piacentini: OK, so no alteration in the format of the themes. Let us use it then
[6:40pm] piacentini: So, we must choose a game to test this (with other edu apps, and plasmoids)
[6:40pm] piacentini: and have it working in 4.1
[6:41pm] pcapriotti: note that a plasma package has its metadata in a desktop file, so the code reading it would not need to be changed
[6:41pm] dimsuz: but this can happen only if libplasma goes to kdelibs, yes?
[6:41pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: cool. I can work on KMines support for this then
[6:41pm] dimsuz: we don't want to depend on kdebase i guess
[6:41pm] piacentini: dimsuz: we can wait for the release that will have libplasma in kdelibs before we support KNS
[6:42pm] piacentini: (glad we cut KNS support for games 3 months ago!)
[6:42pm] it-s: but how does KNS depend on plasma?
[6:42pm] pinotree: piacentini: libplasma in kdelibs? better not, please
[6:42pm] dimsuz: piacentini: but it *will* have it?
[6:42pm] piacentini: I do not know anything about plasma really 
[6:43pm] piacentini: If the services necessary are not in kdelibs, then we should not use them
[6:43pm] mikelima: piacentini: it's hot air... 
[6:43pm] pcapriotti: ok, if libplasma is not going to be moved to kdelibs, I guess there's not much to talk about 
[6:43pm] piacentini: mikelima: lol
[6:43pm] it-s: I think it would be a better idea to have as little deps as possible
[6:43pm] it-s: we don't wan't to lose independance, do we  
[6:43pm] pcapriotti: yes, right, we shouldn't depend on kdebase
[6:43pm] pinotree: and libplasma won't be BC before 4.1
[6:44pm] mikelima: Well no need to rush things.
[6:44pm] piacentini: Idea: let us see how KNS evolves in the next month
[6:44pm] piacentini: And see what edu will use
[6:44pm] piacentini: And we can collaborate and follow them
[6:44pm] mikelima: I think new stuff may be tried in a game, then extended and ported over to other games/libkdegames
[6:44pm] it-s: thqat's a good plan
[6:44pm] it-s: I support
[6:44pm] piacentini: If pure KNS is good enough for them, it is definately good enough for us
[6:45pm] mikelima: For example, again.. sound.
[6:45pm] piacentini: I can try to work with Jeremy and put support for this in KMines
[6:45pm] piacentini: mikelima: edu has lots of data. If it works for their apps, we will be covered
[6:45pm] mikelima: We'll need a configure panel ( to chose sound/music level, disabling sound etc...)
[6:45pm] it-s: sound is a MUST for the next release... but we really have to invent a good framework to handle them
[6:45pm] dimsuz: it-s: phonon?
[6:46pm] mikelima: and common actions for muting/unmuting in all games.
[6:46pm] piacentini: it-s: Actually we don't...
[6:46pm] it-s: that's not what I meaned
[6:46pm] piacentini: Just some common actions
[6:46pm] piacentini: like mikelima said
[6:46pm] piacentini: And for games that really need finer control, they implement it
[6:46pm] it-s: what I was talking about is a 1 file pakaging method
[6:46pm] piacentini: But for mute/unmute and sound volume we can definately have standard stuff
[6:47pm] piacentini: it-s: KNS (I think) packs everything
[6:47pm] piacentini: right people?
[6:47pm] piacentini: You get a bundle
[6:47pm] it-s: a bundle of what?
[6:47pm] piacentini: of sound files
[6:47pm] piacentini: or anything you want to get
[6:48pm] it-s: right now we have all the data (graphics) in one dir and we're happy with that
[6:48pm] mikelima: piacentini: I think so, but I have not looked too closely.
[6:48pm] it-s: if the sound files will be all separated...
[6:48pm] jpwhiting: kns does work with any data you want to provide
[6:48pm] kleag: handling sound should be at a global level, no ? with a standard way to mix each app sound, whitout too complicated controls
[6:48pm] it-s: each theme will require a separate dir
[6:48pm] piacentini: kleag: phonon does that
[6:48pm] mikelima: well, I'd use a dir for each theme.
[6:48pm] mikelima: Right.
[6:48pm] kleag: piacentini: at the app level ?
[6:48pm] pcapriotti: (about packages: aseigo is telling me that for 4.1 they should somehow be available to the whole of kde)
[6:48pm] piacentini: it-s: that is an implementation detail, but agreed
[6:49pm] dimsuz_ joined the chat room.
[6:49pm] piacentini: kleag: clarify?
[6:49pm] piacentini: I mean mute/unmute only some sets of sounds?
[6:49pm] piacentini: Or control their relative volume?
[6:49pm] kleag: I mean you can make an app sound higher that another one like earing your game sound with music at th background
[6:49pm] dimsuz_: kleag: phonon takes care of that - it has categories
[6:49pm] piacentini: kleag: not sure how this is handled
[6:49pm] dimsuz_: game, music, etc
[6:50pm] dimsuz_: piacentini: ^^^
[6:50pm] piacentini: cool
[6:50pm] kleag: dimsuz_: great!
[6:50pm] mikelima: kleag, I asked to kretz, I think categories are meant for application categories..
[6:50pm] piacentini: In any event, you could also create your in-game sound manager that sets the streams volumes and send them to phonon
[6:50pm] it-s: I was thinking: I know SVG can incorporate raw images inside the file, can if do the same thing with sound files?
[6:50pm] mikelima: He said that we should handle relative volumes ourselves.
[6:51pm] piacentini: it-s: not really in an useful way
[6:51pm] mikelima: it-s: not really.
[6:51pm] piacentini: sounds have to play from disk
[6:51pm] piacentini: in most cases
[6:51pm] mikelima: but we have the .desktop files...
[6:51pm] kleag: mikelima: oh.
[6:52pm] piacentini: OK. I think we are drifting here!
[6:52pm] mikelima: kleag: well, it looks like it would not be hard stuff to do.
[6:52pm] it-s: piacentini is right
[6:52pm] piacentini: Let us concentrate on some topics: for 4.1, there are a lot of ideas
[6:52pm] it-s: we can spen the next eternity arguing
[6:52pm] jpwhiting: piacentini: so you want to try sound support in kmines first for kns use?
[6:52pm] piacentini: And I propose we start with Eugene's list, added to the techbase wiki
[6:52pm] it-s: yes
[6:52pm] kleag: mikelima: but then edu will have its sound control ui and kdegames too and office apps too...
[6:52pm] jpwhiting: nevermind, ping me later when you are not in a meeting 
[6:52pm] piacentini: jpwhiting: yes, it can be good. Not only sound, but new themes as well
[6:53pm] jpwhiting: yes
[6:53pm] piacentini: So, let us try some concrete stuff, like new apps for 4.1 
[6:53pm] piacentini: ksirk, kbreakout, kblocks are almost ready
[6:53pm] kleag: piacentini: good idea 
[6:53pm] pcapriotti: kollision!
[6:53pm] pcapriotti:
[6:53pm] piacentini: kollision as well!
[6:54pm] piacentini: What more?
[6:54pm] piacentini: pakman?
[6:54pm] mikelima: pcapriotti: kboard! err.. I mean tegua...
[6:54pm] pcapriotti: ah yeah, I almost finished the port to QGV
[6:54pm] mikelima: tagua
[6:54pm] Mkbart: hum, is there anything like "tiktaktoe" ?
[6:54pm] pcapriotti: yeah, what about tagua?
[6:54pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: waiting for you guys to declare it ready
[6:54pm] pcapriotti: piacentini: well, it is not at the moment, but we ahve time, right?
[6:54pm] piacentini: sure
[6:55pm] dimsuz_: hmm? tagua gets in kdegames? or?
[6:55pm] dimsuz_: ready for what?
[6:55pm] pcapriotti: is it a good candidate?
[6:55pm] piacentini: I think we will have at least until April before the freeze for 4.1
[6:55pm] kleag: Mkbart: the mykgame demo app is a tictactoe, but it is still to be ported to kde4
[6:55pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: it is an excellent one
[6:55pm] pcapriotti: isn't it too big, maybe?
[6:55pm] mikelima: Mkbart: I think tagua could handle tic-tac-toe as a module/plugin...
[6:55pm] Mkbart: kleag, mikelima: Oh, ok
[6:56pm] pcapriotti: yeah, tictactoe makes for an excellent tutorial of tagua plugin development 
[6:56pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: it adds lots of value to the module, so it is worth the footprint
[6:56pm] pcapriotti: ok, then, good  I hope to make it ready in time
[6:57pm] piacentini: I will resume working on KBlocks in January as well, and hopefully it will be ready in 1-2 weeks
[6:57pm] pcapriotti: for better planning: what is the approximate deadline for new additions to kde4.1?
[6:57pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: not defined yet
[6:57pm] piacentini: But not before March for sure
[6:58pm] dimsuz_: btw, i got a wish for katomic that it should support mirrored molecules as a solution to level. what do  you think? it may make sence...
[6:58pm] piacentini: Probably not before April or May
[6:58pm] pcapriotti: ok, plenty of time
[6:58pm] • dimsuz_ wants to check kblocks progress 
[6:58pm] piacentini: So, for the new authors, if you want to work on a game for 4.1:
[6:59pm] piacentini: you can start developing it at home, and when it is minimally working
[6:59pm] piacentini: import to playground/games
[6:59pm] piacentini: From there, it can be finished and maybe moved to kdereview when ready
[6:59pm] piacentini: If it passes the review, it can enter the main module
[7:00pm] Mkbart: I need to learn C++ more 
[7:00pm] piacentini: And we will probably have a dealine for this 2-3 months before 4.1 is out, which should be around April
[7:00pm] dimsuz_: piacentini: who is our new authors?
[7:00pm] it-s: don't forget Ktank. it will be superb once finished (and it will be soon)
[7:00pm] piacentini: DrIDK, ikit
[7:00pm] mikelima: it-s: can you tell/show more about ktank?
[7:01pm] piacentini: mikelima: can we do this after the agenda?
[7:01pm] piacentini: So that we do not run too late
[7:01pm] mikelima: piacentini: ok.
[7:01pm] dimsuz_: it-s: yeah. is it 3d?
[7:01pm] piacentini: We can finish the rest quickly, 15 minutes
[7:01pm] piacentini: and then chat about all the new stuff :0
[7:01pm] piacentini:
[7:01pm] it-s: mikelima: yes, here: http://ktank.free.fr/wordpress/
[7:01pm] piacentini: The missing item is really a brief discussion on what worked on our 4.0 effort
[7:02pm] piacentini: And what we can improve for 4.1
[7:02pm] it-s: dimsuz: yes and no
[7:02pm] pcapriotti: I think the release cycle went very smoothly
[7:02pm] piacentini: I think it was very good, but we lost some momentum at the end
[7:03pm] piacentini: Maybe because it was a long release
[7:03pm] pcapriotti: I can't see no obvious flaws
[7:03pm] pcapriotti: well, that depends on the individual motivation of people, and we can't do much about it
[7:03pm] pcapriotti: but the organization was very good, I think
[7:03pm] piacentini: pcapriotti: yes, and free time as well
[7:04pm] pcapriotti: of course, free time, too, which I have been missing lately 
[7:04pm] piacentini: I think we need to maintain our spirit of collaborative work on all tasks
[7:04pm] piacentini: For example: Johann has not been active, and as release manager he should have been present in this last effort
[7:04pm] piacentini: And we are suffering a bit from this
[7:05pm] piacentini: But some of us are trying to fill the gaps, and this is good. Depending on just one person is bad for our team
[7:05pm] mikelima: well, one problem is that the release date has changed many times...
[7:05pm] piacentini: As all of us will be busy one time or another
[7:05pm] it-s: well... he is really, really busy now
[7:05pm] piacentini: I am not criticizing him
[7:05pm] piacentini: Just using this example to tell why it is important not to depend on just one individual
[7:05pm] mikelima: So I did not work on things I feared would be too "risky" at the end of the release cycle.
[7:05pm] pcapriotti: no, of course, just pointing out we need replacements for important roles
[7:05pm] piacentini: The same as we do in almost all games
[7:06pm] piacentini: I think we still need a final "review" effort in the next two weeks
[7:06pm] pcapriotti: I agree
[7:06pm] piacentini: As there are some bugs appearing in games where the maintainer is not too active
[7:06pm] it-s: it has to be a third party
[7:06pm] mikelima: Not anyone fault anyway.
[7:06pm] piacentini: like some recent bugs in lskat, for example
[7:07pm] it-s: meaning that not one of us
[7:07pm] piacentini: it-s: I think 3rd party testing helps
[7:07pm] it-s: yes and that's why we need to invite someone for testing purposes
[7:07pm] piacentini: But we should also have a final look at everything if possible
[7:08pm] jpwhiting: it-s: piacentini: come to #kde4-krush on saturday, many testers congregate every week
[7:08pm] piacentini: jpwhiting: saturdays are not particularly good for me, but we should do it
[7:08pm] piacentini: yes, a krush day effort?
[7:08pm] piacentini: It has helped edu a lot
[7:09pm] dimsuz_: piacentini: and it will be better if persons not involved in game development would do the tests. sometimes this can reveal a lot of glitches
[7:09pm] jpwhiting: yes, and plasma, konq, kcm, anything that gets tested there has helped
[7:09pm] piacentini: I might be able to attend, but not sure. If anyone from the games team can join
[7:09pm] piacentini: It would be helpful at least to collect bugs, etc
[7:10pm] pcapriotti: there are already some entries for kdegames
[7:10pm] pcapriotti: http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Bugsquad/KrushDays#kdegames
[7:10pm] piacentini: OK, so I think we covered most of the topics. Let us continue some discussion over the mailing list regarding release stuff that we found out (problems)

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