KDE Games/IRC Meetings/2008-10-05-log

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[Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:05:37] <packadal> i guess i have to for the log anyway [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:05:39] <packadal> :p [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:05:51] <joselb> i think its fair if we all introduce ourselfs: josel and maintaining ksudoku [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:05:51] <packadal> so, for the third time, if i'm right :p [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:06:15] <packadal> i'm the new developper/maintainer on kglEngine2d [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:06:18] <piacentini> Mauricio Piacentini, maintaining Kmahjongg/Kblocks [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:06:20] <it-s> I'm it-s and I'm an artist [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:06:34] <emilsedgh> emil, in charge of website [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:06:57] <josef|samba> me working on multiplayer concepts [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:04] <it-s> does anyone know what happend to Matt? He's gone off the face of this planet :O [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:06] <packadal> (do i need to tell everything about me, or just what i'm doing is fine ?) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:09] <mikelima> I'm Luciano and I help a bit with kgoldrunner [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:19] <it-s> packadal: that was good enough [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:23] <packadal> k [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:28] <Parkotron> I'm Parker, the Killbots guy. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:42] Join Half-Left has joined this channel ([email protected]). [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:48] <it-s> Parkotron: oh, right. sorry didn't see you there in that shade :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:07:55] <it-s> Half-Left: right on time [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:08:09] <Half-Left> oh :p [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:08:11] <it-s> Half-Left: we've just started the meeting - introduce yourself [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:08:39] <Half-Left> Hi all, I'm Sean, doing graphics and themes for KDEgames [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:08:45] <it-s> very good [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:08:49] <it-s> anyone lese? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:22] <it-s> this is the plan for the day: [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:23] <it-s> How active are we? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:23] <it-s> New startup screen in Kpat. A mistake, or the way to go? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:23] <it-s> Sound anyone? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:23] <it-s> Input in KDEGames (Gamepads, Joystiques, and such) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:23] <it-s> KGLengine2D refactoring [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:23] <it-s> New graphics in Kpat/Kbreakout [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:23] <it-s> Plan for Killbots? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:23] <it-s> Status of the new highscore classes? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:09:52] <it-s> lets start with "How active are we?" [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:10:05] <it-s> there's been a considerable slow down lately [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:10:08] <Half-Left> Startup screen for kPat is a great idea [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:10:13] <it-s> Half-Left: wait [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:10:24] <it-s> order please :P [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:10:28] <Half-Left> :p [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:10:53] <it-s> I know everyone is busy, and there isn't much to do, and it's all old and no longer exciting [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:11:24] <it-s> but the question is - do we need more manpower? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:11:36] <it-s> cos if so we'll start adevertising [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:11:40] <josef|samba> it-s: from my side I'm more struggling with low-level stuff like KIO debugging which prevent me from working on the high-level stuff like community integration into apps at the moment, so there's some activity but it's not visible :( [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:11:47] <joselb> ksudoku has plenty of work to be done and fortunately got new manpower [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:12:01] <it-s> joselb: sounds good [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:12:02] <Parkotron> It seems like quite a few initiatives were being lead by milliams, but he seems to have disappeared. Does anyone know the story there? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:12:23] <it-s> exactly ... and he is our team leader :/ [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:12:23] <packadal> i think on the KGLEngine2d side there's enough manpower, now i'm there :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:12:33] <it-s> packadal: :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:12:44] <DrIDKLaptop> :D [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:13:03] <mikelima> Well, for myself it is "not much". [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:13:08] <it-s> actually when I say "slowdown" I mean the main project. The playground is blossoming :D [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:13:15] <piacentini> Matt was at Akademy, I think we was finishing a summer job also, that was why he was very busy [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:14:08] <it-s> piacentini: possibly. but then 4.2 is approaching fast... will we be able to do on our own, or should we start looking for help? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:14:09] <piacentini> I think more activity in playground is good and can be expected, maybe what is in trunk/stable is "almost good enough"... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:14:19] <piacentini> help is always welcome :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:14:25] <josef|samba> Maybe it's still holiday time? Hereabouts courses will only be starting within the next days. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:14:48] <it-s> piacentini: I agree. playground is our life and blood, but I would have to see the main body to rotten [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:15:06] <it-s> josef|samba: really? well. I really, really hope so [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:15:10] <piacentini> sure, slow progress is good [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:15:19] <it-s> :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:15:32] Quit DrIDK_ has left this server (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:15:33] <it-s> ok then got it. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:15:37] <Parkotron> The amount of activity in playground really points out the need for a new strategy for sorting games. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:15:51] <it-s> Parkotron: :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:15:58] <mikelima> Well, to need help, one has to have a feature list to improve... do we have one? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:16:26] <mikelima> I think the timing this time is rather unfortunate... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:16:29] <piacentini> mikelima: good point, we can maybe start listing the features we need/want to implement, game by game [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:16:31] Join illissius has joined this channel ([email protected]). [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:16:39] <it-s> mikelima: there was supposed to be one... Matt said he 'll be doing it, but I guess I'll hav eto step in [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:16:46] <piacentini> King of like the Junior Jobs issue [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:16:55] <mikelima> And do we have time to implement them, actually? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:17:10] <piacentini> Not all, but someone might volunteer [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:17:19] <Parkotron> The soft feature freeze is 2 weeks away. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:17:20] <piacentini> to do one feature of one game to start, and then pick up more [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:17:40] <piacentini> realistically, it will not happen for 4.2, but we can start preparing for the future [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:17:44] <it-s> no. of course we won't. it's too short sa call [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:17:46] <mikelima> piacentini: well, I was referring to feature freeze... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:17:55] <mikelima> ah, ok. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:18:14] <it-s> but then 6month is an awfully small time [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:18:23] <it-s> and we will be releasing every 6 month [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:18:31] <it-s> cos we are a part of the KDE [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:18:41] <it-s> unless we decide to split off... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:18:44] <mikelima> it-s: 6 months of unconstrained development is not short.... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:18:56] <Parkotron> I don't think it's really that short a time period for most games. The features we add are rarely that huge. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:19:41] <it-s> well. it's decided then. I'll go through mailing list and build a fearure request list by next Saturday [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:19:44] <mikelima> We could have to adapt development model, but actually I think it's reasonable to develop features in a branch, and commit them to trunk once they are finished. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:19:54] <it-s> then I'll start advertising [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:20:30] <it-s> oh next topic? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:20:38] <it-s> all right: [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:20:45] <it-s> the next topic is - New startup screen in Kpat. A mistake, or the way to go? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:20:46] <emilsedgh> mikelima: afaik kde is going to git.i think that will affect the whole development process a lot [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:03] <Parkotron> The new screen is awesome. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:10] <mikelima> emilsedgh: when? they alway say in one year... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:13] <it-s> has avryone seen the new kpat startup sceen? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:15] <DrIDKLaptop> Parkotron: link? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:30] <DrIDKLaptop> it-s: screenshot? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:32] <mikelima> The KPat screen looks great (just seen it) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:33] <packadal> i haven't [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:43] <mikelima> But is it needed at startup? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:46] <it-s> could someone please prepare a screeny? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:21:50] <it-s> Half-Left: please? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:01] <mikelima> (I mean at every startup) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:10] <Half-Left> of what sorry? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:11] <piacentini> I like it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:17] <Half-Left> oh ok yer [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:28] <packadal> afaik it is not _needed_, kpat fires up in no time [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:31] <piacentini> One click to select a game type, very quick [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:32] <it-s> the question is not if it's great looking, or not, but rater - Does it break the consistency? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:32] <Half-Left> one sec I have one [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:37] <mikelima> I think it could replace the settings/game type menu. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:43] <it-s> cos almost no other game has it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:50] <mikelima> it-s: which consistency? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:54] <it-s> mikelima: I would love to see that [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:56] <piacentini> mikelima :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:57] <Parkotron> I think it's great to have every start up. I only play one or too of the games regularly, but it's nice to be reminded that there's a huge selection available. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:57] <josef|samba> it-s: it matches kbattleship regarding the initial game selection I think [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:22:58] <mikelima> It's a bit like the koffice stuff. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:01] <it-s> mikelima: good question :D [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:13] <mikelima> :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:13] <Half-Left> KPat_Trunk.png [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:20] <piacentini> most people never select another game type in kpat because they do not deal with the menus... :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:21] <it-s> piacentini: in that case kmahjongg? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:27] <piacentini> Now they know a lot is available [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:32] <piacentini> it-s: it could be a good idea, yes [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:38] <it-s> piacentini: :D [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:40] <piacentini> Not sure how it was implemented, looks game specific [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:43] <it-s> I would love to that [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:46] <DrIDKLaptop> hoooo nice!!!! [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:23:47] <packadal> this looks great [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:02] <mikelima> about kpat... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:03] <it-s> piacentini: there will be a bew tile set by 4.2 [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:21] <piacentini> I do not like the bg btw, but the idea is good [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:21] <it-s> piacentini: so... mayby a new screen too... if you aren't too very busy [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:27] <mikelima> It looks like I can't use the deck-designed backs anymore. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:31] <packadal> i think this should be in the games lib, for all to access easily [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:39] <it-s> piacentini: wait, that's on the discussion list [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:43] <mikelima> I get the default back with my cards... too bad. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:43] <packadal> i know than non-power users tend not to mess with the menus [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:24:48] <it-s> packadal: agreed [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:25:05] <it-s> packadal: I hide them wherever I can [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:25:35] <mikelima> Well the intro screen is a menu of sorts. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:25:41] <it-s> so the resolution is - The new screen in Kpat is great, and is the way to go [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:25:48] <mikelima> But it has a graphical representation of the game, which is good. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:26:08] <packadal> the thing is, when the game is over, if i want to change the game type, how do i get this screen back ? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:26:14] <it-s> does anyone know the name of the person who commited it? I would like to contact him [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:26:26] <packadal> there should be a way to get this screen back [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:26:26] <Parkotron> I agree that the graphical representation of the different games is the killer feature. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:26:32] <josef|samba> such graphical menus is also more similar to what people expect from the web, classic menus are a thing of the past for these people [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:03] <it-s> should we move on? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:12] <Parkotron> One big question is: What happens if a thirteenth game gets added? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:34] <it-s> Parkotron: I don't think anything happens. it probably is hardcoded [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:37] <piacentini> Parkotron: in the case of Kpat, game types are hardcoded at compile time [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:40] <piacentini> But [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:49] <mikelima> josef|samba: well, I think menus are useful and do not hinder playing. But if there are more pleasant ways to present choice, it's better still. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:52] <piacentini> On a game like Kmahjongg, layouts can be added with KNS [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:54] <Half-Left> My wife is impressed with Kpat so far, it's there with Vista's card game and thats saying something [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:27:56] <piacentini> So it is a different scenario [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:28:00] <Parkotron> I was just implying that it won't look as pretty with a prime number of games. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:28:42] <it-s> Parkotron: i think that whoever did that, put a selection of most commonly played games on to there [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:00] <mikelima> Parkotron: well, if too many games are added, more pages could be used. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:00] <piacentini> actually, who did that btw? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:03] <it-s> Parkotron: because kpat has more games then there is on the display\ [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:12] <it-s> piacentini: that's what I would like to know [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:14] <Parkotron> it-s: Nope. There are only 12. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:31] <it-s> Parkotron: strange... I could have sworn there were more... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:34] <mikelima> there used to be more games.. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:45] <mikelima> but one was dropped, I think. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:29:57] <packadal> i counted 13 games types on kpat [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:30:08] <Half-Left> Whats the solver so BTW? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:30:14] <Half-Left> do* [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:30:28] <it-s> Half-Left: it tells you if the game could be finished, or not [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:30:41] <Half-Left> oh [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:30:55] <it-s> noving on [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:30:58] <it-s> moving on [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:30:59] <it-s> :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:31:12] <it-s> Next topic is: "Sound" [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:31:22] <it-s> piacentini: anything to say on this one? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:31:50] <it-s> I know we agreen that Phonon sucks..., but could we at least get the Phonon there working for now? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:11] <it-s> I have done all the sound for quite a few games last time. And they are just lying there [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:17] <DrIDKLaptop> it-s: Bip sound from mother card :D [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:31] <Parkotron> Do we actually have anyone with that kind of multimedia know-how? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:32] <it-s> DrIDKLaptop: not that kind of sound :P [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:43] <piacentini> Not really, I do not think anyone worked on it yet. Phonon is working for me with trunk [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:46] <piacentini> and xine-lib [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:49] <it-s> Parkotron: I can do low quality sounds [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:52] <mikelima> Uhm... I have code that could improve the situation for kgoldrunner. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:32:55] <piacentini> at least for for ktuberling [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:33:15] <it-s> piacentini: would you please add sound to mahjongg, and kblocks? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:33:24] <mikelima> piacentini: kubuntu does not seem to ship the xine backend (I have not found it anywhere) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:33:30] <it-s> mikelima: goldrunner already has sounds [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:33:30] <mikelima> and gstreamer is buggy [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:33:42] <mikelima> does it work for you? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:33:46] <Parkotron> it-s: I didn't mean creating sounds. I meant fixing Phonon or writing a new sound architecture. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:33:46] <it-s> mikelima: gstreamer is horrible :P [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:33:53] <piacentini> it-s: I can try, do you have sounds for 4.2? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:01] <it-s> piacentini: yes [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:16] <Half-Left> card flicking sounds would be nice [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:19] <piacentini> Ok, so I will add it to the feature list, please send me the sounds and we can try to make it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:22] <it-s> piacentini: I think last time I have commited everything [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:28] <it-s> piacentini: it's in... 1 sec [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:30] <piacentini> sure? let me see [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:37] <mikelima> Parkotron: I think a "quick fix" is some kind of wrapper around SDL_mixer... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:57] <DrIDKLaptop> openAL is the only way...I think [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:58] <it-s> piacentini: kmahjongg/sounds [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:34:59] <piacentini> sure, they are there for kblocks [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:35:20] <it-s> piacentini: yes and there too [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:35:25] <piacentini> ok, good job. I will try to make them work and we will see how it goes as far as latency is concerned [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:35:26] <mikelima> OpenAL is more complicated, but has nice features... and big holes. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:35:31] <it-s> piacentini: I don't think they are complete though [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:35:37] <mikelima> No way to load ogg files. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:35:44] <Half-Left> Why can't you use simple sounds with phonon? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:35:52] <it-s> yes. we've already discussed that, but Aaron is against it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:35:53] <piacentini> If you want, send me an email with your vision for sounds in these games, and we can talk about the design [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:36:16] <it-s> piacentini: I'll do just that [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:36:24] <piacentini> cool, thanks [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:36:38] <mikelima> Half-Left: well, for simple sounds it may work. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:36:44] <mikelima> But I'm not sure. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:37:14] <josef|samba> Sound on Linux is still messy. On my up-to-date kernel, any sound starts looping and scratching whenever I unload my network drivers. Not good. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:37:16] <mikelima> For me, sounds never emit the 'finished' signal. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:37:30] <Half-Left> I wouldn't go down the path of making another sound system just for a few game sounds otherwise we'll be like GNOME [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:37:53] <mikelima> Half-Left: we do not have much choice. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:38:00] <packadal> i agrre with Half-Left, we should'nt re-invent phonon [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:38:11] <Half-Left> Why, thats what phonon was supposed to solve [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:38:12] <mikelima> It's either wrap SDL_mixer or OpenAL. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:38:18] <it-s> Half-Left: true. the problem here is that once Kglengine2D is ready there may be full feature games for KDE that require sounds, and we have nothing to offer :( [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:38:24] <packadal> i wasn't there the time everybody discussed phonon, but has anyone contacted the phonon dev to talk about this ? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:38:30] <mikelima> phonon is not meant to be used for anything els but streaming. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:39:09] <mikelima> I was there/ [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:39:09] <Half-Left> Amarok guys really like phonon, says them a ton of work, and thats a audio beast [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:39:15] <Half-Left> saves* [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:39:32] <mikelima> Half-Left: well, they just have to stream sounds. That's why they like it. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:39:36] <packadal> we discussed the problem of sound with DrIDK, and maybe we will need something else than phonon in the end [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:39:37] <Parkotron> Half-Left: That plays one stream for 3 minutes, then another. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:39:53] <piacentini> it-s: added to http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.2_Feature_Plan#kdegames [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:40:04] <packadal> and maybe openAL would be the way to go for us [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:40:15] <mikelima> Half-Left: moreover, Phonon is freezed for at least one year... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:40:45] <mikelima> (No new features in that period, I gather) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:41:14] <it-s> piacentini: thanks [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:41:40] <it-s> ok then [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:41:43] <it-s> I suggest: [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:41:44] <mikelima> I'd like to port my sound handling class to one of SDL_mixer or OpenAL and see shat happens... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:42:03] <it-s> we implement Phonon for all the *exusting* *small* games [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:42:16] <it-s> but we will keep in mind that it's limited [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:42:27] <it-s> and actively look for the solution [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:42:37] <it-s> but games without sounds are dull [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:42:41] <Half-Left> hmmm, well phonon takes care of the sound backends, we shouldn't really have to worry about this :/ [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:42:55] <it-s> well. moving on [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:43:01] <it-s> Next topic is: KGLengine2D refactoring [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:43:12] <mikelima> Half-Left: you have not tried using phonon in games, did you? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:43:16] <it-s> (Yes I did skip one. it's not really important) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:44:06] <it-s> packadal: DrIDKLaptop please let us know what is KGLengine2D and where it is at now [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:44:07] <Half-Left> mikelima: I'm just a artist but I like to know behind the KDE4 tech [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:44:37] <packadal> KGLEngine2d is a games engine using QGLWidget for the rendering [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:44:45] <mikelima> Half-Left: Ok, we can talk about it later, if you want. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:45:00] <packadal> it is aimed at easy game developpement, but only 2d-games, most likely tile-based [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:45:20] <Half-Left> mikelima: Sure [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:45:32] <packadal> this afternoon we were discussing the tagging of a alpha or beta, as KGLEngine2d is really shaping up now [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:45:43] <it-s> :D [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:46:01] <Parkotron> packadal: What games are using it currently? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:46:01] <packadal> the particles engine is being refactored [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:46:14] <packadal> DrIDK's ktank [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:46:19] <packadal> and my own personal, katerpillar [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:46:28] <packadal> but still in very early stages of developement [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:46:58] <packadal> and some work will be needed in order to "port" the existing ktank to the new, refactored kglengine [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:47:05] <Parkotron> Why not put Katerpillar in playground? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:47:12] <it-s> I really hope it takes shape and takes off :D If that lib will make 2D game development a cakewalk I'll be the happiest man on earth [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:47:39] <packadal> i developed a pong game to test and try kglengine [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:47:48] <packadal> it was done in no time [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:48:07] <packadal> but then, i refactored kglengine, i know what i needed :p [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:48:42] <packadal> Parkotron: katerpillar will soon be in playground, but as of now, there's quite nothing in it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:48:56] <packadal> only a moving and firing sprite that looks at the mouse [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:49:14] <DrIDKLaptop> ktan core is done! I just wait the next relase of kglengine, tu update it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:49:35] <it-s> cool :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:49:52] <it-s> any question for packadal? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:50:16] <DrIDKLaptop> kglengine will be , what gnome have not :D [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:50:35] <mikelima> well... I have been away for a while... what is katerpillar? a snake game? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:50:39] <piacentini> Looks cool, good progress [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:50:40] <Parkotron> Adding a tutorial to techbase could help attract developers to try KGlEngine out. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:50:54] <josef|samba> yes, tutorial plus screenshots please [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:51:06] Join tsdgeos has joined this channel (n=tsdgeos@kde/aacid). [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:51:31] <it-s> ok then next topic [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:51:36] <packadal> katerpillar is a small shoot-rpg game [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:51:39] <it-s> (we are seriously out of time :O ) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:52:04] <packadal> ok, i'll work on some tutorials :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:52:11] <it-s> Next topic is: New graphics in Kpat/Kbreakout ( Half-Left: DUCK AND COVER!!!) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:52:36] <it-s> has everyone seen the then artwork in kpat? how about kbreakout? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:52:41] <it-s> any comments? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:52:55] <packadal> haven't seen 'em :/ [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:53:00] <Parkotron> KPat really needs a background selector. Is anyone working on this? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:53:01] <piacentini> The bg in kpat is strange (to me), I could not really get what the green part is [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:53:16] <it-s> Parkotron: I don't think so [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:53:27] <piacentini> hum... mine renders differently compared to the one posted in the log [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:53:46] <emilsedgh> in kbreakout background is awesome, but the bricks and gifts are rather plain [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:53:48] <piacentini> maybe I need to update qt-copy... sigh.... QSvgRenderer maybe at it again? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:54:27] <it-s> that's it? no comments? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:54:30] <Parkotron> Which of the themes are new in KBreakout? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:54:32] <it-s> no feelings? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:54:37] <piacentini> For KBreakout, it is a large imprevement over the previous one [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:54:40] <piacentini> gigantic [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:54:49] <josef|samba> it-s: comparing kbreakout to teknoballz, the missing sound really makes the difference, but it's on the right path IMHO [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:54:54] <piacentini> I like it, but I still would like to see a way to theme it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:54:58] <packadal> kbreakout looks good, but does'nt feel as good imho [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:55:25] <mikelima> it-s: I just tried kpat. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:55:31] <it-s> packadal: I would attribute it to the game being mute at the moment [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:55:36] <Half-Left> KBreakout_Default_Trunk.png If you haven't seen it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:55:39] <it-s> use Defaoult theme! [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:55:42] <packadal> it-s: hmmmm [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:55:42] <piacentini> it-s: the web 2.0 one is cool [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:55:43] <mikelima> Ah, there is a leaf on the water. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:55:54] <it-s> piacentini: that's an old one [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:56:03] <mikelima> I think it's better than the old bg. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:56:14] <piacentini> oh, I have not updated in this week I thin [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:56:24] <packadal> it-s: i thi nk the way bonuses fall faster and the lack of eye-candy is faulty [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:56:36] <piacentini> but anyway, way better than the one shipped with 4.1 for me [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:56:46] <packadal> it-s: but i have'nt played the trunk version in a long time [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:57:01] <it-s> packadal: *sigh* it's not up to me. If it was, we would be all OPenGLd by now :P [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:57:16] <packadal> hehe [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:57:28] <packadal> maybe kglengine will ease this [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:57:38] <it-s> packadal: that's what I'm hoping for [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:57:41] <piacentini> Parkotron: btw, good job on killbots [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:57:53] <it-s> piacentini: that's our next topic :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:57:59] <it-s> should we move on? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:58:09] <it-s> The next topic is: Plan for Killbots? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:58:10] <piacentini> it-s: did not see it in the list on techbase, sorry [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:58:35] <Parkotron> So a while ago I sent a big email looking for Killbots feedback to the mailing list. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:58:35] <it-s> Parkotron: it's your que I guess [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:58:46] <Parkotron> But none of you replied. :( [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:59:02] <Parkotron> I'd like to get it into kdereview ASAP. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:59:16] <it-s> Parkotron: that's what I was referring to when I complained about slowdown at the beginning ;( [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:59:18] <Parkotron> Does anyone have any bugs or criticisms? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:59:20] <Half-Left> it-s: Kbounce as well? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:59:30] <it-s> Half-Left: what about ti? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:59:36] <Half-Left> New theme [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:59:53] <it-s> Half-Left: not following... [Sun Oct 5 2008] [16:59:58] <tsdgeos> Parkotron: we did not reply? bad bad which mail? i only see [Kde-games-devel] Killbots on 02-09-08 04:12 and it has replies [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:03] <it-s> Parkotron: none from me [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:12] <piacentini> Parkotron: I think you can move if you fill the requirements (handbook, localization) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:15] <piacentini> And it looks like you do [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:16] <Half-Left> New graphics like Kpat and Kbreakout [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:26] <piacentini> Sometimes no feedback is good feedback, I think [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:27] <Parkotron> tsdgeos: One person replied, but that was a user. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:30] * kleag was working on a sci paper with short deadline and "awake" only now! [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:36] <Parkotron> I was looking for developer feedback. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:00:56] <piacentini> Parkotron: I have some feedback from Albert as well on the thread [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:01:01] <piacentini> (iirc) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:01:01] <it-s> Half-Left: we've just discussed it. it seems aevryine is quite contete with either [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:01:29] <tsdgeos> no, no feedback from me [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:01:37] <piacentini> let me check then :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:01:38] <Parkotron> tsdgeos: The email I'm refering to was September 1st. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:01:52] <tsdgeos> Parkotron: if you send another mail i promise to have a look [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:01:55] <it-s> tsdgeos: could you please stay for a moment afre the meeting I have an svn related question [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:02:02] <tsdgeos> it-s: yes [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:02:09] <tsdgeos> Parkotron: well, septemer 1 for you, 2 for me :D [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:02:21] <Parkotron> Darn timezones. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:02:27] <piacentini> Anyway, Parker, I do not see why you could not move to kdereview [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:02:31] <piacentini> If you desire to [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:02:40] <it-s> Parkotron: I support [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:02:43] <Parkotron> Will do. I'll send out another email, then. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:02:48] <it-s> Parkotron: it's in a good shape [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:03:07] <Parkotron> it-s: Do you object to me making your theme the new default? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:03:24] <it-s> Parkotron: I was making it as default :) so no objections here [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:03:43] <Parkotron> Great! [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:03:45] <it-s> Parkotron: I may revisit it tonight too [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:03:57] <it-s> Parkotron: I don't like the current background [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:04:04] <Parkotron> Be sure to svn up, as a made a couple ID changes. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:04:15] <it-s> weill do [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:04:23] <it-s> well, we are all out of time :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:04:31] <it-s> the final topic is: Status of the new highscore classes? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:04:38] <it-s> who's topic is this one? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:04:44] <Parkotron> I added it. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:04:54] <it-s> Parkotron: ah well, you go on [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:05:14] <Parkotron> I was hoping to discuss it with Matt, but as we've already mentioned, he seems to have disappeared. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:05:22] <it-s> Parkotron: ah right [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:05:33] <Parkotron> I'd say it's safe to say they won't be ready for 4.2. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:05:33] <piacentini> Parkotron: hopefully just still on vacation :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:05:33] <josef|samba> We would definitely need Matt for this topic. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:05:48] <piacentini> Parkotron: anyway, are you using KScoreDialog? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:05:59] <Parkotron> If I have time, I think I might take a stab at implementing them. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:06:01] <piacentini> Yes, you are [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:06:06] <it-s> I think the release magaer's position with KDEGames is ill fated :D our every remeale manager disappears without a trace right afre being appointed :P [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:06:07] <Parkotron> piacentini: yES. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:06:13] <piacentini> Just remember I filled my name earlier today while testing it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:07:04] <Parkotron> The interface was pretty heavily discussed on the mailing list and there is some skeleton code in playground/ [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:07:09] <it-s> [how do I always manage to make so many silly mistakes in words?] [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:07:25] <Parkotron> So hopefully I won't step on Matt's toes if I try to implement his ideas. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:07:41] <piacentini> Parkotron: probably not, but email him anyway :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:07:57] <Parkotron> piacentini: Of course. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:08:50] <it-s> so [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:08:54] <it-s> is this it? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:08:59] <it-s> should we call it a day? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:09:08] <Parkotron> I have another quick topic. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:09:13] <it-s> Parkotron: go on [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:09:26] <Parkotron> Has everyone subscribed to the new kde-games-bugs list? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:09:34] <Parkotron> Tsk-tsk if you haven't? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:09:49] <it-s> Parkotron: :O :D :) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:10:00] * it-s runs out screaming [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:10:02] Join DrIDKLaptop_ has joined this channel ([email protected]). [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:10:32] <Parkotron> I'll take the silence to mean most people haven't? [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:10:38] <it-s> yup :P [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:10:51] <joselb> jep [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:10:58] <packadal> yep :/ [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:11:01] <kleag> Parkotron: I am subscribed :-) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:11:04] <Parkotron> It's pretty low traffic. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:11:05] <tsdgeos> i have [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:11:31] <joselb> would be bad if it's high traffic there :-) [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:11:31] <piacentini> Parkotron: I am on it [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:11:59] <Parkotron> Okay, so it's /not/ that empty. Good. [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:12:34] <it-s> all right now [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:12:48] <it-s> i think it time to close the meeting [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:13:01] <it-s> Thank you all for joining us today [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:13:15] <it-s> it's nice to se the channel somewhat alive again [Sun Oct 5 2008] [17:13:30] <it-s> the meeting is now over

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